Re: "Anticipatory" Tense

At 5:09 am -0500 2/3/02, David Peterson wrote:
>In a message dated 03/1/02 10:45:47 PM, Ian Maxwell writes:
>
><< My question is, does a word already exist for this, or can I just use
>
>my own invented word? >>
>
>And exponent posited:
>
><<Inchoative?>>
>
>    It was my understanding that "inchoative" was "becoming", and that's how
>I've been using it in my language.
This is correct - the inchoative aspect (also called by some 'inceptive' or
'ingessive') denotes "becoming" or "starting", e.g.
Japanese:
hanasu "to talk" >> hanashidasu "to start to talk"
furu "rain" >> furidasu "to start to rain"

Latin used -sc- to form new inchoative verbs, e.g.
tremescere "to start trembling" (<< tremere "to tremble")
obdormiscere "to fall asleep" (<< dormire "to sleep")
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At 7:06 am -0500 2/3/02, Patrick Jarrett wrote:
>    Howdy, I am not an often poster but I do actually  have something to
>contribute to this string. What Ian is calling the  "Anticipatory" is
>actually covered in Latin grammar as the "Future Active  Participle" --
>"going to do something" or "about to do something"
Yep - and 'tis used with the verb "to be" to form various tenses of the
_prospective aspect_ (or 'anticipatory' aspect), e.g.
oppugnaturi sunt = they are about to attack (present)
oppugnaturi erant = they were about to attack  (past)
oppugnaturi erunt = they will be about tto attack (future)

The same formations occur also in Esperanto and, I guess, in all languages
with a 'future participle'.
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At 9:40 am -0500 2/3/02, Ian Maxwell wrote:
>>  > My question is, does a word already exist for this, or can I just use my
>own invented word?
>>
>> I believe that would be the prospective aspect.
><snip>
>
>Thank you. I followed the link, checked the meaning, and that is in fact what
>I'm looking for. I'm sure "anticipatory" would have worked fine, but then
>"prospective" not only has a pre-defined meaning, but is quicker to say.
Spot on!
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At 4:53 pm +0000 2/3/02, Lars Henrik Mathiesen wrote:
[snip]
>According to Trask, prospective denotes the state of being about to do
>something, not the immediacy of the actual act --- the crown prince is
>going to become king, some time the next thirty years --- and it thus
>shares the stative status of perfect, and presumably its aspecthood.
I agree.

>(I think Welsh and Irish express the perfect by something like 'is
>after', and the prospective by 'is before', clearly marking them as
>states).
Quite correct as regards the perfect in both languages, e.g. in Welsh:
Mae e wedi  canu
Is he after singing  = 'He has sung'

I don't know about Gaelic and, maybe, in literary Welsh or earlier forms
such formations occurred for the prospective forms; but modern colloquial
Welsh uses "mynd i" (going to) in a similar way to English, French and many
other languages, e.g.
Mae e'n mynd i ganu - He is going to sing.

The preposition 'ar' ("on") may be used like 'about' in english to express
anticipation, e.g.
Roeddwn i ar ganu
 Was    I on singing = "I was about to sing"

But this idiom is used much as its English equivalent; it doesn't really
constitute a fully developed aspectual system.

Actually early Classical Latin could also use "to go" + the supine (a form
expressing purpose, used in conjunction with verbs of motion).  Thus the
above examples could also be:
oppugnatum eunt
oppugnatum ibant
oppugnatum ibunt

This form gave way to the 'present paretciple' + "to be" in the later
Classical period, though the supine occasionally continued to be used the
"impersonal passive" forms of "to go" to form the passive prospective
tenses, e.g.
urbem oppugnatum itur = the city is going to be attacked (literally:
one-is-going to-attack the-city)
urbem oppugnatum ibatur = the city was going to be attacked
etc.

(Latin, unlike Esperanto & ancient Greek, did not have a future passive
participle).

Ray.
(back again at last  :)







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A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                     [J.G. Hamann 1760]
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