Re: Dangling prepositions and phrasal verbs.

En réponse à Stephen Mulraney :


>What about "entrer dans"? Can you think of a heard utterance (kosher or
>not) that uses the "dans" of "entrer dans" without a following noun phrase?
Simple answer: no, even in the most slangish French I ever heard. "entrer" 
can easily be used alone as it fully means "go in" or "come in". "Dans" is 
only a preposition and thus can only be used with a complement. The case of 
"avec" is *really* an exception.
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En réponse à Philippe Caquant :


>At the moment, I can't see any possibility for using
>"entrer dans" without something following it. True,
>you can say "entrer dedans", in that case, "dedans"
>refers to something already defined before.
"Dedans" is simply an adverb, equivalent to "inside" in English.


>I noticed another interesting case, also colloquial:
>"se pisser [chier] parmi", meaning, to piss [shit] in
>one's pants. Normally "parmi" means "among", and has
>to be followed by a noun group or a pronoun: "Je vais
>passer parmi vous" (especially used by people begging
>in the metro); "il faut choisir parmi ces
>possibilités" (we have to choose among these
>possibilities), etc. This expression might be rather
>regional: I think Frederic Dard uses it in his novels,
>and he was from Lyons area.
Once again, you're referring to something that is *not* existing in French, 
even colloquial (and I've had a few friends from Lyon, who *never* used 
such an expression). But you gave it its right origin: Frederic Dard 
*invented* it, using the correct expression as a template: "se pisser 
[chier] dessus" ("dessus" is the adverb associated with "sur": "on". In 
this context, it means "on oneself". I tell that to our fellow 
non-French-speaking conlangers :) ). It's not the first time I see an 
author inventing new expressions by changing on word or another for comical 
effect. For instance, the replacement of "dessus" with "parmi", gives an 
impression that the man is not only peeing on himself, but on everyone 
around him, thus making the expression comically exaggerated.

>We also use to make fun about people saying "je suis
>monté en haut" or "je suis descendu en bas", because
>these are typical pleonasms. It would mean "I went up
>up" or "I went down down". Yet you can hardly find
>someboy claiming that he never said so at last once in
>his life.
That is correct :) .

>  We just try to refrain ourselves from saying
>so, in order not to be mocked. This is a very
>interesting case of linguistic frustration, or
>auto-censuring.
Well, as you said, they *are* pleonasms. There's just no need to use the 
full expression, except when you're playing on its comical effect :) .

>(1) There might be possibilities for "entrer" not
>followed by "dans / en", but these are special uses.
>For example a computer program might ask you: "Entrez
>un nombre: " (Please type a number). This might be
>derived from English keyname "Enter".
I don't remember seeing this expression except in a context where a 
keyboard is present, so I think it is indeed a literal translation from 
English.


Christophe Grandsire.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr

You need a straight mind to invent a twisted conlang. 

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