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Re: Dangling prepositions and phrasal verbs.

From:Philippe Caquant <herodote92@...>
Date:Saturday, June 19, 2004, 19:23
--- Christophe Grandsire >
> Once again, you're referring to something that is > *not* existing in French, > even colloquial (and I've had a few friends from > Lyon, who *never* used > such an expression). But you gave it its right > origin: Frederic Dard > *invented* it, using the correct expression as a > template: "se pisser > [chier] dessus" ("dessus" is the adverb associated > with "sur": "on". In > this context, it means "on oneself". I tell that to > our fellow > non-French-speaking conlangers :) ). It's not the > first time I see an > author inventing new expressions by changing on word > or another for comical > effect. For instance, the replacement of "dessus" > with "parmi", gives an > impression that the man is not only peeing on > himself, but on everyone > around him, thus making the expression comically > exaggerated.
I'm not quite sure he invented it (in fact, he was from Bourgoin-Jallieu, but I said Lyons area because Bourgoin-Jallieu might be little known worldwide). But he also lived in Switzerland and sometimes refers to expressions used by francophone Swiss people. Thus maybe it is used around the French / Swiss border.
> > > We just try to refrain ourselves from saying > >so, in order not to be mocked. This is a very > >interesting case of linguistic frustration, or > >auto-censuring. > > Well, as you said, they *are* pleonasms. There's > just no need to use the > full expression, except when you're playing on its > comical effect :) .
Sure, there is no need, from a logical point of view, but the fact is sometimes you just feel like saying so, and you have to think for a while: "oh no, that's not correct, if I say 'monter', this already includes the idea of 'en haut'". "Monter en haut" just seems more expressive, instinctively, and by contrast "monter là-haut" is correct. Ex: "Monte là-haut, tu verras Montmartre". If one wanted to be completely logical, one should just say "Monte là", because "haut" is already expressed by "monter". But "monter là-haut" is admitted, while "monter en haut" is not. Thus maybe the confusion. ===== Philippe Caquant "High thoughts must have high language." (Aristophanes, Frogs) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>