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Re: The [??] attribute

From:Nik Taylor <yonjuuni@...>
Date:Saturday, September 7, 2002, 17:43
Roger Mills wrote:
> One would think that if they were truly syllabic, there could be > alternations with non-syllabic, [C=] ~ [C].
Why? That would represent the loss of a syllable. In a pronunciation like [kIt?n=], I can't see any way of interpreting that sound as anything but syllabic. The adjective would be [kIt?n=IS], three syllables.
> Note too that in "bottom" the _t_ is flapped
There's also no syllabic nasal, at least in my dialect. For me, only /n/ can be syllabic, and only when following /t/ or /d/, "bottom" is simply /bA*@m/
> rhythm ~ rhythmic and the other -thm words yes, but they're weird furrin > words.
Again, in my dialect, those are /rID@m/ - /rIDmIk/, and I don't think I've ever heard a syllabic /m/ in that word.
> We do get alternations with final /r, l/: ['fajr=] ~ ['fajrIn] 'fire, > firing', ['b&tr=] ~['b&trIN] 'batter, battering'
In your dialect, perhaps, but I say ['fajr=iN] and [b&*r=iN]. (this last maybe more
> typical of British than US, but permissible here in fast speech) or ['bAtl=] > ~ ['bAtlIN] 'bottle, bottling', ['sEtl=] ~ [sEtlr=] 'settle, settler'.
Again [bAtl=] ~ [bAtl=iN], [sEtl=] - [sEtl=r=], maybe [sEtlr=] in rapid speech.
> Personally I've always preferred to indicate the schwa in these cases, if > only becuase in a phonological derivation it's simpler to account for > vowel-deletion than to account for a change in syllabicity.
Even if you don't pronounce the schwa? Except in the most careful speech, I have no schwa in any of those words. I could see positing an *underlying* schwa (but then why not do the same for [r=] and [l=]?), but if there's no schwa on the surface, why show it in a phonetic transcription? -- "There's no such thing as 'cool'. Everyone's just a big dork or nerd, you just have to find people who are dorky the same way you are." - overheard ICQ: 18656696 AIM Screen-Name: NikTaylor42