Re: Group Conlang

Mathias M. Lassailly wrote:

>I posted a reply to Pablo whereby I disagreed on predicate roots, but
reading Carlos' post, I withdraw my
>disagreement provided we make two new cases, namely the genuine ABSOLUTIVE
and CAUSATIVE cases to use with
>predicates derived from instruments.
I agree on those cases as explained.


But:

>The following examples explain why :
>
>'he rises'
>
>= undergoer-he pred-rise
Ok so far, but:

>'he raises'
>
>causative-he undergoer-he pred-rise
What would happen if we removed undergoer-he? ("He causes to rise"?)
And what if we removed causative-he? ("He is risen?")
(It's no critic, just curiousity. Does it have any sense?)

>
>Well I'd like two more cases : ABSOLUTIVE to refer to the one acting as a
hammer (not the one using it) and >CAUSATIVE to tag the agent who makes
someone else raise.
>
Could we have a reflexive pronoun to avoid repeating
one of the two "he" in the example above? And where would you put it?
(causative-himself or undergoer-himself?, I know none of them make
sense, but it could be elliptical or idiomatic).

Tell me if this is incorrect:
To say "he is a man", do I say

abs-[he] pred-[man]

(i. e. he is (= acts as) a man)?



>You'll realize we don't need many adjectives anymore if we have these
possibilities :
>
>apparent =  mu-absolutive-image
>
>beautiful = mu-absolutive/attributive-beauty
>
I don't recall us having adjectives :)

How will we handle possessives? So far we'd been using modifier
tags, so that mu-image would mean "related to the image", interpreted
as "the image's". How would you say "the image's shape"?


>> If a root is an action concept, those roots are verbal ones.  The
derived
>> noun will be the action ("killing" from "to kill" or "biting" from "to
>> bite").
>
>I derive 'to kill' from 'to die' via causative :
In Drasele'q, I derived "to kill" enthrosim- from "to die" thros-
by adding en- (a causative prefix) and -im (passive voice):
"to cause to be dead". But I don't see it as a regular procedure,
and indeed I did that as an exception. I'd prefer two distinct
roots... But the idea is good, until we have time to create
synonyms.


A question about the previous issues:

dikjak- "to bite"

absolutive-kjak- "a bite" ?
causative-kjak- ???
agent-kjak-       "a biter" ?
patient-kjak-     "a bitten one" ?


[God bless Carlos for this:]
>> A dictionary should hold all the meanings a root would have as different
>> PoS.
Yes! Oui! Si'! Da! Ja! Hai!

(Anybody, a word for "yes" in our conlang? _Zas_? _Ly_?)


>> Maybe proximity or deixis would be another non-compulsory part of the
>> screeve.  This allow us to take appart two individual things of the same
>> gender.
>
>Yes.
Yes. Obviative pronouns/inflections?

>>
>> We should define which elements will form the screeve, which are
compulsory
>> and which not, and use the non-compulsory parts for disambiguishing:
like
>> for using for modifier-modified agreement or give extra information
which
>> could clarify the meaning.
>>
>
>I don't get that one. More please.
I think Carlos means: let's always mark some elements on words. Other
elements
can be marked optionally, and they will be, as long as it helps to solve an
ambiguity.

But, Carlos, I think agreement *should* be compulsory.


Finally, something about subclauses:

afraro ki [asi peki diwivul] aki pesi dikjakul.
"The dog that I painted red bit me"

ki = relative or resumptive? pronoun
How's that?

(I used the wrong case markers -- it should be, I think,

afraro ki [causative-si undergoer-ki diwivul] aki pesi dikjakul,

right?


--Pablo Flores

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