Re: theta roles and ergativity in a fairly isolating new language [longish]

Nathaniel G. Lew writes

> On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:57:33 -0400, Joe Mondello <joemond@...>
> wrote:
>
> >The matter becomes fairly confused when dealing with subordinate clauses:
> >
> >ki nu [(nu) súdo pi brame]
> >ki      nu súdo pi    brame
> >hope I    find   Det horse
> >I hope I find (by looking) the horse
> >
> >ki      mo       nu-z      [nu súdo zúyo]
> >hope mother 1s-Gen [1s  find  work]
> >My mother hopes I find work
> >
> >Thus far I think this is fairly reasonable.  The hairy part is that when
> the
> >subject of the subordinate clause is the experiencer, the subject and
verb
> >of the main clause follw the verb of the subordinate clause (follwing
> >this?), e.g.:
> >
> >súdo-ga  ki       mo slívil-o
> >find-Fut  hope 1s   money-PL
> >I hope I will find/happen upon a substantial sum of money.
>
> I am confused.  Should that example be
>
>     súdo-ga [ki (nu)] nu slívil-o
>
> ?
Sorry about the mistake, that should have been "súdo-ga [ki nu] slívil-o".
After I wrote the email, however,  I thought long and hard about this
system, and changed it substantially.  Mind you that a lot of what I say now
may not jive with the last e-mail, but that's the creative process, you
know.


> (You gloss "mo" as "mother" above.)  Also, what if the experiencers of the
> two clauses are not co-referential?  That is, how do you translate "I hope
> that my mother happens upon money?"  Is it something like this:
>
>     súdo-ga [ki nu] mo nu-z slívil-o
>
> ?
No.  The subordinate clause would essentially be re-rendered as a NP meaning
"the X-ing by Y to Z".  when subject=agent, it is marked with the suffix -nu
(which comes from '-na wi' 'to exist with'),  When subject=experiencer, the
Direct object is marked with the genitive. e.g.

        pi    mo-nu         [súdo-ga  slívil]
        Det Mom-Nom  find-Fut  money
        The "will find money"-ness of/by mom (sub=agent)

        pi    [súdo-ga  mo-nu]        slívil-za
        Det find-Fut   mom-Nom  money-Gen
        The "mom will find"-ness of money (sub=experiencer)

It should be noticed that I've changed the 1s pronoun to 'e' so that I dont
have to say 'nunu' all the time.  That being said,  "I hope my mother
happens upon  money" is

        ki      e-nu       [pi    [súdo-ga mo-nu]          slívil-za].
        want 1s-Nom [Det [ find-Fut mom-Nom] money-Gen].

Relative clauses work use the relative particle be in-situ:

        ki      e-nu       [pi (i)    [súdo-k'     mo-nu        [slivil
wo-be(i)]]]
        want 1s-Nom [Det (i) [find-Perf. mom-Nom [money Exist-Rel(i)]]]

Sometimes compounding even occurs in this way, e.g.

Rel-in sleep=be-me trisko> bémetrisko> bímetox=bed

I think the system works fairly well but there's something about the method
of subordination that sets off an alarm in my brain.



>
> - Nat