Re: Translating from a conlang into a conlang

Boudewijn Rempt <bsarempt@...> wrote:

>=20
[snip Drasel=E9q translation]
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Nobly done! Beautiful!=20
>=20
> >=20
> > I   dremh=FCntel aouth ladhet
> > PRT thirteen   wells have.1s
> >=20
>=20
> The spring I meant was was springtime, as opposed to autumn.
> In the other couplets summers, autumns and winters are counted,
> to end in the final couplet with the death of the girl.
Thanks. I corrected that in my other post.

> >=20
> > Sar qgast,       bur    Nollalvet
> > 1s  beautiful.1s say.3s Old-FEM-sibling
> >=20
>=20
> How is _qg_ pronounced? A click, or is it a double articulation,
> like kp?
Neither of them; it's a uvular voiced stop, /q<vcd>/.

>=20
> > Sarn   i   ieden qg=E9dnerai       k=FCr=E1th
> > 1s.ACC PRT silk  give.SUBJ.3sACT someone        ("give silk" =3D "cou=
rt")
> >=20
>=20
> What a beatiful idiom...
Thanks. I really think it's good -- it just popped out
when I needed it, and I'm not going to deny I like it. :)

[snip]

> Your age is something you 'have' in most
> Charyan languages. I have 29 years, _Do et werubrai apar=20
> ajumum_ in Denden. An exception is Southern colloquial,
> where a genitive construction is normal: _tan do werubarai
> abar ajun ga_.
Yes. Spanish works like that too, _tener N a=F1os_ "to have X years".
What does the Southern colloquial expression mean?

> >=20
> > I have no way to render a high grade honorific pronoun or
> > an affective aspect, so most of the feeling is lost in
> > the translation, I guess. I have a deference marker for
> > verbs which I could use for the flattering mood (it
> > would transform _bur_ "says (Eldersister)" into _b=FArsasuv_.
> > I also have an informal speech marker, maybe for your
> > affective aspect (_qg=E9dnervitai_ "may [someone] give").
> >=20
>=20
> It is not necessarily so that the feeling of the song is lost. In
> Den'naha, the HGH pronouns are the 'unmarked' ones, for general usage
> outside the household. The MGH pronouns can be used in the household,
> but only between people of the same generation. The VHGH (very High
> Grade Honorific) pronouns are used in circumstances where real deferenc=
e
> is needed. There also exist affective pronouns, but, interestingly, the=
y
> are not used in this song. Affective pronouns are usually only used
> between lovers.  The verb avaneran demands the affective aspectivizer;
> to use it otherwise has the lexical meaning of seduce.
I have two extra 1s pronouns, _sbar_ and _skar_, feminine and
masculine, which could be thought as honorific (they are formal;
the neutral _sar_ is used in everyday speech). But it turns out
that verbs have an optional deference marker (it changes one verb
to another, like Japanese -(i)masu). And you can make possessives
into verbs, which can be deference-marked, and then made into
participles, thus having a honorific possessive pronoun. For example:

_sar_ "I"
_san_ "my"

*But* you can have the dummy verb _sarnen_ (dummy because only its
participle _sarnel_ is used), meaning "to be mine". If you add=20
deference, it becomes _s=E1rnasuvan_; and you can have the active=20
participle, _s=E1rnasuval_ "my, mine" with a polite tone. Different
aspects can be included in a possessive pronoun this way.


--Pablo Flores

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
En gian idgrivar fr=FAmneltel frasi=E9rraser gian pavonn
be i malladhar siqged=FCer.

"Don't blame your enemy for your disgrace=20
 if you've just given them a chance."

(Traditional Dr=E1selhadh saying)