Re: Names for derivative forms - request for comments PLEASE :)

Eric Christopherson <raccoon@...> wrote:

>The basic concept behind the associative category is that it's an object or
>possibly a person which is in some *unspecified* way associated with the
>action of the verb. Mainly it'd be used for something that didn't fit into
>any other categories.
OK -- which means it's gonna have to be lexically specified.
(Otherwise one could imagine many things.)

>could be "something which is intended to be eaten." (BTW, did you invent
>that phrase, or is it someone else's? I've heard of _nomen agentis_
>and -_actionis_ before but not that one.)
I think I saw _nomen patientis_ somewhere, but in fact
I made it up on the fly by analogy. I have no idea about
Latin declensions, but it sounded right...


>> >Occasion
>> >        -Refers to a larger occasion surrounding or connected to the
>> >        action/event
>> Isn't this the same as the resultative?
>
>Not exactly. This refers to some sort of "bigger" event surrounding a
>smaller one, as a wedding is a large ceremony centered around the act of
>people getting married, but also including other elements. I actually got
>the idea for it a day or so before I read about something like this in
>Spanish, oddly enough. For those of you who don't speak Spanish, when you
>say "Where is the test?" (meaning where will the test be administered) you
>would use the verb <ser> for "to be," whereas if you were asking the
>location of the actual paper the test is printed on you would use <estar>.

Now that you point it out, yes. For occasions (a wedding,
party, a test), you use _ser_; for actual objects, _estar_.
But I can't imagine many contrasting pairs like 'the test'
you mention. For a wedding, one has to use _ser_; asking
where the wedding is using _estar_ would sound as if one
had gone to a given address and the wedding party had been
swept away by a strong wind or something. :)


--Pablo Flores
  http://www.geocities.com/pablo-david/index.html
  http://www.geocities.com/pablo-david/draseleq.html