Re: écagne, and ConLand names in translation (was: RE: RV: Old English)

Gzranq Gkhawn (John Cowan):
> And Rosta wrote:
>
> > 1. The ConLand Tsxunrcaa [t s^x u n ! a:] is known in Latin as
> > _Scungria_. I have suggested that in traditional English it was _Scunger_,
> > though these days it is known as _Scungria_, and in French it is _écongre_.
> > But I can't recall my reasoning, and I now wonder whether _Scungry_ and
> > _écongrie_ are likelier outcomes. What do you think?
>
> Oh, we must have Scungry!
I'm open to correction, but I think that's what it would be if it is was
a Middle E entrant into English. But apparently, if it entered OE we
are expecting something else, Shunger/Shinger/Shungry/Shingry, which I
shall enquire about in another message.

> That would actually provide an answer (albeit
> in another universe) to the annoying pseudo-riddle: "Three common words
> end in -gry; two are 'hungry' and 'angry'; what is the third word?"
> The riddle is unanswerable as posed because it has gotten garbled by
> oral tradition.  (There are various obscure words ending in "-gry" as well.)
What is the ungarbled version, and why is it a riddle?

> > 3. Livagia is [lyxaag(@)] in Livagian. Latin _Livagia_, traditional English
> > _Lifay_, _(the) Lifays_, _the Lifay isles_ (pronounced /'laifi/, from
> > Old English)
>
> Sounds like the pronunciation reflects some contamination from the
> (originally) Norse suffix "-ey", island, common in English place names.
Possibly. I think that may or may not be true for the English names of
some of the constituent islands of Livagia, such as Owmansey (Liv. _Aumndzi),
as well as some others whose names I forget. But I think the pronunciation
of _Lifay_ could just be a reduction of the diphthong in the unstressed
syllable, comparable to day names ending in /di/.

> > Translations of these names into other natlangs and conlangs would be
> > delightedly received by me...
>
> In Brithenig, they are Lleig and Yscyngr /Is'kiNgIr/, I think.
O wow! Can you run through the history of these for me?

I wonder what _Kemr_ is in Livagian. Is _Kemr_ just the normal development
of _Cambria_? Do other European lgs call _Kemr_ by their local reflex of
_Cambria_? Because of the intrinsically dead character of Livagian, no
sound changes would have supervened upon the earliest form of the word
in the language, hence _Gkhambrya_, or conceivably _Kambrya_ (<k> = [k']).
OTOH, if Kemr and Cambria are felt to be fundamentally different entities,
so that Kemr is not just modern Cambria, then, given that Lyaco-British
contacts would have existed during the Romano-British period, though
dying out during the Dark Ages, the name for Kemr would probably reflect
the form of the Brithenig name at the time either when Kemr first became
a nation, if this was not too far into the Dark Ages, or else during the
late Middle Ages when the sea traffic out of Europe was beginning and
Lyaco-European contacts were resuming.

--And.