Re: CHAT: t-shirt

Scripsit Raimundus:

>At 9:58 pm -0400 26/9/00, Padraic Brown wrote:
>>On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Raymond Brown wrote:
>>
>>>The idea of excluding Klingon reminds me far too closely of the petty
>>>envies & jealousies I experienced on Auxlang.
>>>
>>>Where have I heard that before?
>>
>>Er...here?
>
>When - before this anti-Klingon rant?
With last year's t-shirt debacle. I didn't pay attention to the whole
thing, but it died over auxlang ranting and raving.

I wasn't replying to "It's succeeded, even tho it's weird and I don't
like it - whereas no one's taking any notice of my beautiful (con)lang
with its perfect orthography and flawless phonology" specifically;
though the attitude certainly has its problems (jealousy, etc.). I
should have deleted that part.

>>I can see excluding a _conlang_ because it wasn't crafted
>>by a listmember; but I can't see excluding a _conlang_ just because
>>it's also an auxlang. We are _not_ immune, Ray!
>
>Sorry - I'm completely lost here. I don't know what you are trying to say.
Why? Some would exclude a conlang for subjective reasons. Seems like
the same arguments were made when excluding one or another auxlang
(last year and this year). Or excluding all auxlangs from the shirt,
for that matter.  In other words, I _can_ understand excluding a
language for objective reasons (i.e., not made by a listmember,
copyright infringement); but _can't_ see excluding any one language or
even a whole type of language for subjective reasons (i.e., that
language stinks, that kind of language is _not_ what we are about).

>My 'quote' above was meant to give the sort of anti-Esperanto arguments I
>had heard ad_nauseam on Auxlang.  I was merely pointing out that the
>arguments given in the anti-Klingon rant are (apart from details,
>obviously) precisely the same as those given over & over again against
>Esperanto.  And there is no doubt in my mind that such arguments were
>prompted, in some cases at least, by petty envy & jealousy.
OK. I see that.

>I was trying to say exactly what David said when he wrote:
>[...]
>>Oh my!  Just as I was about to congratulate us all for having navigated the
>>auxlang perils and apparently coming to a rational conclusion, we get
>>anti-conlang protests.  This was not at all expected.  Surely we artlangers
>>haven't become that myopic.  We don't judge language creations by these
>>criteria here.  At least I hope we don't.
>
>I had hoped so also.  I would've hoped, in fact, that we were imune, Padraig.
Right. Tis a constant struggle.

Padraic.

>Ray.