Re: Telona number system

On Sunday 02 March 2003 7:25 am, Roger Mills wrote:
> Mike Ellis wrote:
> > Jonathan Knibb wrote:
> > >Rather than give the whole system of rules, maybe it would be more fun
> > >just to list the first few numbers and let people work it out.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Quite the system! I've managed to discover the rules: 1-13, and 15 and
> > 17, have their own names.
>
> Quite the system, indeed!  I'm math-challenged, but here are some minor
>
> additional comments:
> > Postposed _ala_ means "times two", _efen_ "times three", _ilcur_ "times
> > four", and _ilku_ "times five". There is also one instance of _eldena_
> > which means "times six".
>
> and eso 'x7', ildivi 'x9' and alta 'x10'-- these only co-occur with ca in
> 29, 37, 41 resp.
>
> >The "phonological alternations" you mentioned are
> > evident in these words: ra - ala, pen - efen, sur - ilcur, chu - ilku.
>
> I think there's also vowel harmony of sorts:  if the *2 multiplier prefix
> is /Vl-/ (with affect on the following cons.), the V = i before base /i,u/,
> =e before /e,o/ and =a before /a/
>
> The primes involve some modification too:
> 22: lali ala 23 ru [allali] (reverse base -multiplier)
> 46: [ru allàli 23] alá *2  47: ru [ilu alláli] (add mult.-- Vl-ru allali?)
> 30: vami ala  31 ru [alvami](reversed)
> 21: co efen (7*3)   43 ru [eso efén] (Vl-co efen)
> The various accents may be relevant.
>
> Actually in case of allali and alvami and ildivi it's unclear whether it's
> ru [mult-X] or ru [X ala reversed> Vl-X]-- it seems to work either way
> here. But the rule does seem to be "add the multiplier Vl- to the whole
> term" in 43 and 47.
>
> > This takes care of most of the numbers.
> > The leftovers follow some odd rules. _ru_ seems to mean a function 2x+1:
> > _ru ildivi_ "two times divi (9), plus one" is 19; _ru alvami_ "two times
> > vami (15), plus one" is 31, etc.
>
> Both ru and ca seem to serve only to create primes.
>
> There are also compounds with _ru_:
> > 38 - ru ildìvi alá = ("ru" 9) times two
>
> I veiw this as [ru ildivi 19]*2
>
> > 43 - ru eso efén = "ru" 21 [21 being _co efen_]
> > 46 - ru allàli alá = ("ru" 11) times two
>
> This is [ru allàli 23] ala*2 by my figuring...cf. 47....
>
> > Another function is found in _ca_, which is 4x+1: _ca ildivi_ "four times
> > divi (9), plus one".
>
> I find that especially neat. ca eso 4*7 +1,  ca alta 4 *10 +1.  But would
> 53 by ca [Vl-tedith] 4*13+1or ru [tedith ala 26 or whatever it transforms
> to] 2*26+1?
>
> > So all that is left is 25, _chu ede_. Since _chu_ is 5, I'd guess this is
> > simply "five squared".
>
> So it seems. Presumably 49 would be co ede, et seq.  But would 100 be tha
> ede? or something based on 25 or maybe 20-- chu alta?
>
> Would the structure of the terms be significant? generally [larger named
> factor, 7-12 13 15 17] times multiplier (Vl- plus smaller units 1-6, 9--
> maybe 7, 10 in eso, alta though they only occur with ca).  Is it possible
> to multiply by the larger factors too?-- how would one do 13*17 (well, ru
> [110] would be one way, if we knew 100)
>
> > >(And who can tell me what 1918 comes to in this system?  :)) )
> >
> > I can't figure that one out. Or perhaps I can with more time, but I
> > really want to post this first!
>
> If we don't know 100, how can we find 1000? keep us posted. (Is this even a
> base-10 system, necessarily?) If by chance it's base-12, the year is '1918'
> is113A, but that still doesn't help.
>
A second point: This system doesn't seem to have a base-system.  I don't think
it needs one.  However, I would guess that it is base-13, if you were to call
it anything.

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