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Re: The cost of time

From:Elliott Lash <al260@...>
Date:Tuesday, February 12, 2002, 2:03
 kam@CARROT.CLARA.NET writes:

> On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 09:55:02PM -0500, Elliott Lash wrote: > > > Coincidentally, i came across this problem only a few minutes after reading > > the first post of this string. I was translating a bit of the Mabinogi in > > to Nindic. I came across the sentence: > > > > And before the feast was over she became his bride. > Original "Kyn daruot y wled honno, y kyscwyt genti" > Spelling modernised "Cyn darfod y wledd honno, y cysgwyd genti" > Trans "Before that feast was over, he slept with her" > The verb _darfod_ is a compound of _bod_ 'to be' and means "to be over" > "to be done, finished, completed, disposed of" etc. The form used is the > verbal noun, so the meaning is literally "before (the) ending (of) the feast > that_one ..."
Yes, thank you..I've always wanted to read the original, i can't find it in stores, and I can't keep on taking it out of my University's library.
> >"Tarry ye here the rest of the feast, and I will go ..." > Orig. "Ar ny deryw o'r wled, treulwch chwi, a minheu a af ..." > Mod. Orthog. "Ar ni dderyw o'r wledd, treuliwch chwi, a minnau a af ..." > Trans "Since the feast is not over, spend/pass/consume ye [the remainder], > and I myself will go ..." > Here _daryw_ is a finite form of _darfod_, 3s present 'to be over, done with' > or here with _ni_ 'not to be over, to be incomplete, continueing'. The sense > is stative. The following verb _treuliwch_ is the 2pl imperative of _treulio_ > "to use up, consume, wear out, spend (money)" which perhaps gives a pointer > to the more general sense behind "spend" if we try to think like people in > a society much less involved with money (where e.g. rents were generally > paid in kind). The sense is less "wait behind while I go away" as "you all > just keep on partying and I'll go off and pay my respects to Caswallon" > > > Where the problem was: the rest of the feast. > Which remarkably is left unexpressed in the original, it's just an artifact > of going through English (and a pretty flowery translation at that, is it > Lady Charlotte Guest?). It would be perhaps _gweddill y wledd_ 'the remainder > of the feast' or maybe _o'r sydd yn aros_ 'that which is left, is remaining'.
I like the second one better, in reminds me more of Modern Welsh. And I'm not sure of the's an internet tranlsation
> > To get around this problem, I created the root: > > -DEK- duration,last,pass, etc. > > A preposition from this root would be *edek, which would have the > > form: edheg, in Nindic, and ere, in Silindion. > > Since neither has a perlative case, i assigned it the allative case in > > Silindion (any other suggestions?), and the oblique form in Nindic. > Knowing little about the Eldar tongues, I'm puzzled as to why you didn't > create a noun "remainder, remnant" or possibly an adjective or stative > verb "remaining". The use of a preposition seems a bit odd.
Neep....when'd I ever say that it was an 'Eldar' tongue? The preposition means 'throughout, during, through' so forrh. Elliott Lash