Re: The cost of time

On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 09:55:02PM -0500, Elliott Lash wrote:

> Coincidentally, i came across this problem only a few minutes after reading
> the first post of this string. I was translating a bit of the Mabinogi in
> to Nindic. I came across the sentence:
>
> And before the feast was over she became his bride.
Original "Kyn daruot y wled honno, y kyscwyt genti"
Spelling modernised "Cyn darfod y wledd honno, y cysgwyd genti"
Trans "Before that feast was over, he slept with her"
The verb _darfod_ is a compound of _bod_ 'to be' and means "to be over"
"to be done, finished, completed, disposed of" etc. The form used is the
verbal noun, so the meaning is literally "before (the) ending (of) the feast
that_one ..."

>"Tarry ye here the rest of the feast, and I will go ..."
Orig. "Ar ny deryw o'r wled, treulwch chwi, a minheu a af ..."
Mod. Orthog. "Ar ni dderyw o'r wledd, treuliwch chwi, a minnau a af ..."
Trans "Since the feast is not over, spend/pass/consume ye [the remainder],
and I myself will go ..."
Here _daryw_ is a finite form of _darfod_, 3s present 'to be over, done with'
or here with _ni_ 'not to be over, to be incomplete, continueing'. The sense
is stative. The following verb _treuliwch_ is the 2pl imperative of _treulio_
"to use up, consume, wear out, spend (money)" which perhaps gives a pointer
to the more general sense behind "spend" if we try to think like people in
a society much less involved with money (where e.g. rents were generally
paid in kind). The sense is less "wait behind while I go away" as "you all
just keep on partying and I'll go off and pay my respects to Caswallon"

> Where the problem was: the rest of the feast.
Which remarkably is left unexpressed in the original, it's just an artifact
of going through English (and a pretty flowery translation at that, is it
Lady Charlotte Guest?). It would be perhaps _gweddill y wledd_ 'the remainder
of the feast' or maybe _o'r sydd yn aros_ 'that which is left, is remaining'.

> To get around this problem, I created the root:
>  -DEK- duration,last,pass, etc.
> A preposition from this root would be *edek, which would have the
> form: edheg, in Nindic, and ere, in Silindion.
> Since neither has a perlative case, i assigned it the allative case in
> Silindion (any other suggestions?), and the oblique form in Nindic.
Knowing little about the Eldar tongues, I'm puzzled as to why you didn't
create a noun "remainder, remnant" or possibly an adjective or stative
verb "remaining". The use of a preposition seems a bit odd.

> The result is:
>
> Hai ogal dhoror selchad, ephuilys ni nuin in. Or Deniw,
> "Egerros mior edheg selchad, 'bo ianaw mi noth Cwadfen"
>
> (the names have been changed to random Nindic names).
>
> Elliott Lash.
Keith Mylchreest
(facinated by the perils of (mis)translation)