Re: Umlauts (was Re: Elves and Ill Bethisad)

--- Ray Brown <ray.brown@...> wrote:
> On Friday, October 24, 2003, at 12:11 ,
> Costentin Cornomorus wrote:
>
> > --- Ray Brown <ray.brown@...> wrote:
> >> 'Nˆel' is just as good as 'NoÎl' - it just
> >> some foreigners'
> >> "umlaut accent" which doesn't matter one way
> >> or another.
>
> > And in English it really doesn't.
>
> But Noël is French!
And so are "vis a vis" and "role". It is
increasingly common to not put the accent marks
on such words as are naturalised in English (role
almost never has it anymore).

"Map" is Punic via Carthaginian; hell, "via" is
Latin; "television" is Latin; "charge" is Latin;
etc. etc. We don't ensure that any of those words
are correct or faithful to their original
languages!

> > Anyway, I'd prefer the spelling Nowel.
>
> But that's English, and obsolete now except in
> Christmas carols.
Perhaps not so obsolete for me...

But I'll be sure nót to wish thee a cheery nowel
and a happy yule in a few months time! ;)

> If one is going to use French for some supposed
> glamorous or prestigious reasons (who
> understands
> the minds of advertisers?), then one should at
> least IMHO take the trouble to do so properly.
Sure. But they're not using French. They're using
English. Or would you propose a Language Board
for setting rules on how foreign words can be
used, when they can be used and the way in which
they can be borrowed?

I see it like this: English borrowed numerous
terms from French. That done, they become our
words. Those words are now as English as
ketchup/catsup, taco or chipmunk.

Also, we could easily take using these words
properly to an extreme. From now on, I will
expect thee to conjugate/decline all your Greek
borrowings in Koine, your Latinate words in
Latin, your Celtic roots in Gaulish (or Gaelic),
Spanish in Spanish, French in French, Oriental
and American words in their native forms. You'll
be expected to use the appropriate alphabets,
ideogrpahs, pronunciations, etc. Sound good?
Sound at all likely? Sound at all like what
English has ever done to the words it borrows?

Of cousre not! It's a ridiculous idea; but only a
little more ridiculous than keeping the accent
marks that are meaningless in English, though
they may be useful in French.

Now, you'll notice that some of us áre using
accents in our posts here. I find this Dutch
convention to be entirely pleasing and much more
satisfactiry that typing out _underscores_ when I
wish to emphasise a word. This will probably
nèver become commonplace, but there we be!

> The spelling
> 'Nöel' seems to me not only to display
> ignorance but shows lack of respect for
> French:
Far from it. It shows as much ignorance as
"ptarmigan" and "parley". It shows great respect
for French, as we stìll see fit to borrow from
them!

> "Yes, I'll use your
> language 'cos it's sorta sexy, but don't expect
> me to waste time checking it's correct."
So long as it's reasonably correct English, fine.
I réally don't see why we should be expected to
ensure that it is also correct French. Let the
French see to their own tongue!

Padraic.



=====
- Nos côsez yen fin xristianós et trancouil

- Côsez-el a Ddon!

--

Ill Bethisad --
<http://www.geocities.com/elemtilas/ill_bethisad>


Come visit The World! --
<http://www.geocities.com/hawessos/>







.

Replies