From: | tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...> |
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Date: | Saturday, January 28, 2006, 19:34 |

--- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Sai Emrys <sai@S...> wrote:>[snip] >Two good tests are branching factor and recursivity. If it can't to >both to arbitrary degrees, it's not what I'm talking about.Would flow-charts and logic-tables, then, be among examples of fully- two-dimensional non-linear writing systems? If not both flow-charts and logic-tables, then, one or the other? Admittedly the set of semantic relationships they can represent is limited compared to the entire set of semantic relationships available in natlangs; but, it appears to me, they do represent those which they represent, in a fully-two-dimensional non-linear way. (Note: If there is a requirement that lines do not cross, a two- dimensional flowchart does have some restrictions on branching and recursion (they can be unrestricted locally, but there are some global restrictions on interactions). In particular one cannot have six items A,B,C,D,E,F which can occur sequentially but which also can occur in at least one each of the three following pairs; Either A can be followed by D, or D can be followed by A; AND, Either B can be followed by E, or E can be followed by B; AND, Either C can be followed by F, or F can be followed by C.)>[snip] >If you are thinking of e.g. Choose Your Own Adventure books, those >are not nonlinear at all; they are merely branching >(or 'customized') linear. (Viz: the scene in /The Princess Bride/ >where the kid corrects the grandfather and says how the story is >obviously *supposed* to go - the story would still be linear either >way, it's just a change in how it turns out.) >Every one that I have seen is exclusively intended to have one path >*at a time* that is possible; attempting to keep track of the full >tree is extremely difficult. They definitely don't take advantage of >the actual structural net as an object in itself, which is what I >was imagining non-linear fiction (or poetry) would be like.How about Mozart's "Musical Dice Game"* (Musikalisches Würfelspiel), a 16-measure minuet in which 14 of the 16 measures can be "filled in" in any of 11 different ways, all of which "sound good (musical)" regardless of what other choices have been made? It's true that it can't be "pronounced" (played) more than one way _at_ _a_ _time_; but didn't Mozart intend it to be _read_ all-ways-at-once? Because there are, obviously, about 1,518,999,334,332,960 (1.518999 * 10^15) ways to _listen_ to it; even if everybody in the world listened to a disjoint set of one-hundred-thousand of them, that would cover only about two-thirds of them. * http://www.studyworksonline.com/cda/content/article/0,,EXP1237_NAV2- 95_SAR1238,00.shtml "For each of the 16 bars of a Viennese minuet, the Musical Dice Game offers 2 choices for the eighth and sixteenth bars, and 11 choices for each of the other 14 bars. Using a pair of dice to select randomly among the alternatives for each bar, the player can generate a wide variety of different melodies. The choices for each bar are designed in such a way that no matter which combination of bars you end up with, the result is a pleasing melody that satisfies all the harmonic and compositional requirements of a Viennese minuet of the late 1700's." * http://sunsite.univie.ac.at/Mozart/dice/ "There are 176 possible Minuet measures and 96 possible Trio measures to choose from. The result of a dice roll is looked up in a table of rules to determine which measure to play. Two six-sided dice are used to determine each of the 16 Minuet measures (i.e. 11 possibilities for each of 16 measures). One six- sided die is used to determine each of the 16 Trio measures (i.e. 6 possibilities for each of 16 measures). So in theory, there are (11^16) * (6^16) = (1.3 * (10^29)) possible compositions."> [snip]--- Thanks, Sai; thanks also, Yahya. I've enjoyed reading your posts. Tom H.C. in MI

Sai Emrys <sai@...> |