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Re: Non-linear full-2d writing (again)

From:Sai Emrys <sai@...>
Date:Sunday, January 29, 2006, 2:13
On 1/28/06, tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...> wrote:
> --- In, Sai Emrys <sai@S...> wrote: > >[snip] > >Two good tests are branching factor and recursivity. If it can't to > >both to arbitrary degrees, it's not what I'm talking about. > > Would flow-charts and logic-tables, then, be among examples of fully- > two-dimensional non-linear writing systems? If not both flow-charts > and logic-tables, then, one or the other?
Flow-charts, yes. Logic tables, not the sort that I'm thinking of (give an example?).
> (Note: If there is a requirement that lines do not cross, a two- > dimensional flowchart does have some restrictions on branching and > recursion (they can be unrestricted locally, but there are some > global restrictions on interactions). [...]
That would be an aesthetic issue more than a definitional one. And there are ways to allow crossing and still be understandable - e.g. different colors, some sort of crossing-over glyph (e.g. the little bump for circuitry blueprints), etc.
> How about Mozart's "Musical Dice Game"* (Musikalisches Würfelspiel),
Nope, for the same reason as the CYOA books.
> a 16-measure minuet in which 14 of the 16 measures can be "filled in" > in any of 11 different ways, all of which "sound good (musical)" > regardless of what other choices have been made? It's true that it > can't be "pronounced" (played) more than one way _at_ _a_ _time_; but > didn't Mozart intend it to be _read_ all-ways-at-once? Because there > are, obviously, about 1,518,999,334,332,960 (1.518999 * 10^15) ways > to _listen_ to it; even if everybody in the world listened to a > disjoint set of one-hundred-thousand of them, that would cover only > about two-thirds of them.
Again - yes, it is branching - but no particular playing of it can realize both AA and BA and BB and etc at the same time. (As far as the listener [perceiver] is concerned...) And no, it's not intended to be *read* all-ways-at-once. Have you ever tried to do that? It'll be thoroughly confusing and quite unplayable. It's intended to be read some *particular* way at once. Neat example though. :-) On 1/28/06, Jefferson Wilson <jeffwilson63@...> wrote:
> Sai Emrys wrote: > > On 1/25/06, Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...> wrote: > > > >>1. Thanks for trying to explain your notion of "non-linear", and how it > >>differs from simply "not presented along a straight line". If I might > >>summarise, I think your meaning of "non-linear" is what I would call > >>"non-sequential". So we're really talking about basic internal structure > >>here, rather than (primarily) about representation. > > > > Two good tests are branching factor and recursivity. If it can't to > > both to arbitrary degrees, it's not what I'm talking about. > > What do you mean by "arbitrary degree?" If all symbols are the > same size you're more-or-less restricted to six branches from a > single symbol.
Only if they're also all square AND not allowed to overlap (or 'fill' a square space, like all 'ideographic' languages I know do - e.g. Japanese / Chinese kanji/hanzi always "take up" one square of space, no matter what they do within it). If you have different shape of their 'personal space' - e.g. hexagonal (viz. maps used for wargames) - or if they have allowance for some sort of fusional morphology, then I see no reason why it cannot in fact be literally to any arbitrary degree of branching / recursion. - Sai


Jefferson Wilson <jeffwilson63@...>