Re: CHAT: This or that that.

Lars Finsen skrev:
 > Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
 >
 >> quoting me:
 >> > You know I have my school English, but I notice that
 >> > when I stay with some friends that I have on Humberside
 >> > for a few days, my school English is giving way somehow
 >> > - to a more real English I suppose.
 >>
 >> I also tend to pick up whatever pronunciation those
 >> around me use, and not only in English, which can be kind
 >> of embarrassing at times, actually.
 >
 > My feeling is that I cannot exactly go about *educating*
 > those people.

Did I say you should? I think you misunderstood me totally.
I only said that if you first use one accent when you meet
people, then suddenly or gradually start aping their accent
it's embarrassing for me. I do this when I go to different
German-speaking parts too, or even in Denmark and Norway!
It's not *their* accent which is embarrassing, but *my*
failure to maintain the integrity of my own accent(s) in
different languages. The one exception seems to be when I go
to Stockholm: my Gothenburg accent gets stronger if
anything. Probably because Stockholmers react positively to
it -- quite the opposite of how most Gothenburgers react to
a Stockholm accent, BTW.

 > They are English, I am not, thus they are "right", and I
 > am "wrong", aren't they?

Absolutely! I might add that they are right also vis-à-vis
RP speakers, whose 'betterness' rests only in the (former?)
social position of its speakers!

The language is their property, to deal with as they like
 > (and they do), for me it's only a tool. That's the
 > way it is.

If you'd followed this list in the past you'll find that
that's precisely my view. It is also my view that foreign
learners should aim for an accent which

(1) Isn't unduly/unnecessarily influenced by their L2.
(2) Should pick (a) model accent(s) which are reasonably
     easy for them to imitate.
(3) Is easy to comprehend for both L1 and L2 speakers alike.

which to me means that if ones L1 is rhotic and doesn't have
a lot of diphthongs and doesn't exploit phonemic vowel
length the same way most British English accents do one may
be better of taking an American accent as model, unlike what
the Swedish school system thinks. General American also has
the advantage that it is relatively free of class
differences, i.e. in America people of all social classes
speak the same accent. But of course an L2 learners choice
of accent model should ultimately be everyones personal
choice: if you plan to go to Australia to stay there for
some years you're probably better of learning an Aussie
accent than anything else, regardless of the phonology of
your L1! :-)

 > My English also is infected strongly by listening to
 > various kinds of folk music - currently The Corrie Folk
 > Trio and Paddie Bell - magnificent stuff...

[@IrIS &nd pr@Ud Qv It] I take it! :-)

An Irish accent BTW has many advantages if you want to be
widely understood, as it both is rhotic and maintain a
number of vowel contrasts that were lost in General
American, as well as a distinct /t/ in all positions. This
is quite possibly because it originated as Irish speakers'
L2 accent! The social impact of an Irish accent may be
another thing, though.

 > LEF
 >
 >
 >
--

/BP 8^)
--
   B.Philip Jonsson mailto:melrochX@melroch.se (delete X)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Truth, Sir, is a cow which will give [skeptics] no more milk,
and so they are gone to milk the bull."
                                     -- Sam. Johnson (no rel. ;)

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