Re: "triggers et al" as I presently understand them

On Thursday, November 18, 2004, at 08:45 , Rodlox wrote:

>  it bounced since I was over my 5 limit...re-trying...
>
>
>> okay, I'll be going in chronological order here...
>>
>> *TRIGGERS
>> at first, I thought that the letter starting the sentance could modify a
>> =
>> word to a vastly different meaning (leading to that sketchlang where =
>> 'ukku meant see/fear/seek)...
Oh. I clearly misunderstood your example. In any case in your previous
email you said quite specifically:
On Tuesday, November 16, 2004, at 10:38 , Rodlox wrote:
[snip]
>  also, I've become given to understand that a trigger doesn't simply
> modify
> a word (run/ran/running), but it changes the word's entire meaning.
>
>  'ukku = I, you
>  a  'ukku  ayn = I see you
>  o  'ukku  ayn = I fear you
>  u  'ukku  ayn = I seek (pursue) you
'ikku = I, you.

Now you say "where ='ukku meant see/fear/seek)...". So how are we to parse
your sentences if the meaning of _'ukku_ changes from "I, you" on 16th
November to "see/fear/seek" just two days later?

>> ..then I came to understand that it [the "trigger"] simply chooses =
>> between the forms of something (rather like the Neteru of Ancient =
>> Egypt)...ie, pen/write/language/script...etc.
?? Where did you understand this from?

I think the present thread "Tagalog & trigger idea" is now making sense. A
trigger is quite simply some element that triggers a change in another
element known as the target. There can be many different reasons for this.
  At present we are discussing the peculiar Philippine construct where a N(
oun) P(hrase) triggers a particular verb form according to the semantic
role of the NP.

>>
>> *FOCUS
>> this one made a sembalance of sense, as it seemed to distinguish between
>> =
>> the following...
>> "_What_ are you doing?"
>> "What are _you_ doing?"
>> "What _are_ you doing?"
>> "What are you _doing_?"
Ah. Not sure where this comes from. But I guess it is focus in the sense
of "contrasting with something else". The normal use of focus is the "new
element" introduced into discourse. The focus would be the specifically
_new element_ given in the answer to the questions, except the 2nd
question.

>>  though, is it possible to have "What are you doing _?_" ?
No. The question mark is not pronounced, therefore we cannot stress it!

>> *FRONTING
>>  this was one that confused me for a while, since it said that...well, =
>> like in "Ted ran away to the far off tree", that _Ted_ modified =
>> _ran_.....and that, to me, made no sense.
It probably makes no sense to anyone else either.

Who or what is "it" who allegedly said this?

'Fronting' means nothing more nor less than moving to the front of a
sentence or of a clause some element that does not normally occupy the
front position. That is all.

In the sentence "Ted ran away to the far off tree" - there is no fronting!
  This is normal position of the words.

In "Away ran Ted to the far off tree", the adverb 'away' has been fronted.

The main reasons for fronting seem to be either to bring the topic ('thing
under discussion') to the front, as in German (see my recent examples), or
to bring the focus to the front, as in Welsh (also see my recent examples)
. Also in several European languages, questions often cause fronting. Cf.
He is there   (no fronting)
Is he there?  (the verb is fronted)

>> I would have thought that the time-tense modified _ran_ (making it =
>> something other than, for example, _runs_), or that _ran_ was modified =
>> by _away_ or the destination (somehow being affected by _the far off =
>> tree_).
Eh? What? _ran_ is the simple past tense (sometimes called the 'preterite'
) of the verb "to run".

Ray
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Anything is possible in the fabulous Celtic twilight,
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