Re: Rubaga Phones

Thanks, Christophe, I knew I could count on you! There's a little bit of
discussion below.

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 03:23:30 +0100, Christophe Grandsire
<christophe.grandsire@...> wrote:

>En réponse à Jeff Jones <jeffsjones@...>:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I have some tables of phonetic symbols ((I hope the columns line up))
>> I'm using for my Rubaga description and am wondering if anyone would
>> care to provide X-SAMPA equivalents.
>
>X-SAMPA equivalents? No problem! The ones I don't give equivalents to are
>identical in X-SAMPA to what you gave. And I hope it will still be lining
>up with me :)) .
They line up. I've redone the tables with most of the substitutions.

 Consonants:
                 |  stop   fricative nasal  trill  later. aprx.
                 | VL  Vd   VL   Vd    Vd  VL   Vd    Vd    Vd
 ----------------+---------------------------------------------
 bilabial        | p   b    p\_w       m
 labiodental     |          f    v
 labiodent.+pal. |          f_j  v_j
 apicodental     | t   d    T    D     n               l
 apicodent.+lab. |          T_w  D_w
 alveolar        |          s    z             (r)
 retroflex       |                              r'
 palatoalveolar  |          S    Z
 palatovelar  or
 palatal         | c   J\   C    j\    J               L     j
 velar           | k   g    x    G     N
 labiovelar      | k_w g_w  x_w  G_w   N_w           L\_w    w
 uvular          |                         R\_0 R\
 glottal         |          h
 labioglottal    |          h_w

>/w/ is normally a labiovelar approximant. You're sure that what you mean
>is purely bilabial? (I ask that because you also have a labiovelar row,
>where /w/ would fit better)
Well, the tongue is lowered somewhat in my own pronunciation of /w/, but it
could be labiovelar, if that's more frequent.

>Quite simple. Your W is X-SAMPA _w, and your J is X-SAMPA _j :)) .
>
>There's nothing like a retroflex trill in IPA (and I can't see how to mark
>it). I replaced it here by the tap.
Are you sure? Isn't the Irish /r/ usually a retroflex trill?

>I rendered your voiceless uvular trill with the voiced one and the sign
>for voicelessness.
I'd forgotten to include symbols for uvular fricatives, since non-trilled
versions can occur in dialects.

>> Also, what's the proper form of the affricates [tS] and [dZ] (the t
>> and d in these are alveolar).
>
>[t_S] and [d_Z] (_ renders the tie bar, but is also used for diacritics in
>X-SAMPA).
>
 Vowels:
             |    unrounded      rounded
             | front    central     back
   ----------+---------------------------
   close     | i                       u
   close lax |   I                    U
   close mid |     e                 o
   mid       |              @
   ????????  |       E      6       O
   open      |             a_"

>[I] and [U] are not close-mid (that's [e] and [o]), they are close lax.
>The only mid vowel is the schwa [@]. Also, [a] is not really central but
>front (unless you mean [6], which is near open central unrounded, or
>inverted a in IPA.
I was using relative terminology, since the vowels don't exactly match.
I had in mind /I/, /U/, /e/, /o/, /E/, /O/ all being slightly lowered and
relatively tense, but I guess I'll have to change it, if it can't be
notated.

> You can also centralise [a], but then you have to use
>the centralise diacritic - the umlaut - which makes in X-SAMPA [a_"]) and
>[V], if you mean the vowel in "but" (inverted v in IPA) is the unrounded
>equivalent of [O].
My own vowel in "but" is central.

>Apart from that, you're using X-SAMPA for the vowels already :)) .
>
>Christophe.
>
>http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr
>
>Take your life as a movie: do not let anybody else play the leading role.
Why do I always get the Lon Chaney roles?

Jeff J.

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