Re: Some new Brithenig words? Narbonosc help?

[CHEESE]

At 3:57 pm +0200 22/5/01, Christophe Grandsire wrote:
>En réponse à John Cowan <cowan@...>:
>
>> Christophe Grandsire scripsit:
>>
>> > Is the Dutch kaas, English cheese derived from Latin then?
>>
>> Yes indeed, at least the latter.  It is a borrowing of Old English
>> times,
>> which accounts for the palatalization /k/ -> /tS/.
>>
>
>What is it in German already?
Yes, indeed - old English was: ce:se <-- Latin _ca:seus_. So also:
German: Käse [second letter is a-trema]

The German & English shows i-umlaut of the original /a:/,since the Germans,
among who the Romans were trading, would've have heard it as /ka:sjo/

Also from the Latin is Welsh _caws_, with no fronting of the /a:/.

----------------------------------------------------
At 10:39 am -0400 22/5/01, Steg Belsky wrote:
[snip]
>-
>
>Spanish has "queso".
Indeed, and Portuguese has _queijo_ - presumably from an earlier */kaisjo/
with palatalization caused by the VL /j/.
------------------------------------------------------

At 12:04 pm +0200 22/5/01, Christophe Grandsire wrote:
[snip]
>....... It looks good to me anyway. French has fromage (from formage)
>and Italian formaggio (same origin),
..and Catalan _formatge_, all from *(ca:seus) forma:ticus = cheese made in
a mould.

The Eurocloniac auxlangs seem divided on this, cf.:
Esperanto: fromagho (or _fromagxo_ as it often gets written in emails, i.e.
g-circumflex)
Novial: kese

>.......................................... I'm still
>undecided for Narbonósc. It will probably have words of both origins, with
>just
>a slight semantic twist :) .
Sounds a good idea to me  :)

Ray.

[HARE]
Christophe then went onto write:

>> lebrin < L leporinus (hare)
>
>It gave lièvre in French, didn't it?
No.

>Four-syllable Latin words really got mangled through French didn't they?
Sometimes. maybe - but not this time.

I don't know why Padraic derives _lebrin_ from _leporinus_, since the
latter is an _adjective_ meaning "of or pertaining to a hare".

The actual Latin for 'hare' is: lepus (gen. leporis).

French has no more mangled a Latin quadrisyllabic than has Spanish
(liebre), Portuguese (lebre) or Italian (lepre).  They are all regularly
derived from Vulgar Latin *lepre.

>Anyway I like "lebrin" (looks like a French last name :) ).
You mean "Lebrun"  ;)

------------------------------------------------------------------

Just for fun, you might like to consider how 'cheese' and 'hare' turn up in
Speedwords.

Cheese is _bibufir_
<-- bib = drink
to which we add the "favorable suffix" -u, to get _bibu_ = milk (i.e. nice
drink!)
We can then take the word _fir_ ("firm") to form the compound: _bibufir_
"firm milk", i.e. CHEESE!

Hare is _zovrap_
<-- zo = animal
to which we add the "associative suffix" -v, to get _zov_ which must be a
"rodent", according to Dutton.
We can then take the word _rap_ (fast, quick, rapid) to form the compound
_zovrap_ "rapid rodent", i.e. hare.

Thinks: hares are not the only rapid rodents I've met.  Rats & squirrels
seems to travel pretty fast IME.

Thinks again: I must do better in 'briefscript'  ;)

Ray.


=========================================
A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]
=========================================

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