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Re: English Changes or what into Conlangs

From:Padraic Brown <pbrown@...>
Date:Saturday, December 4, 1999, 21:42
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Sally Caves wrote:


>And even so, their prescriptions are broken all the time. Do we >still split infinitives? Do we still say lay for lie? Do we still >say "I don't like him going" instead of "I don't like his going"? >We're constantly being corrected for "mistakes" that were there in >Shakespeare's day and earlier.
I'd like to quickly add that I've never split an infinitive in my life. And am not precisely sure _how_ one would do it. I've done the laylie shuffle; and always use the "him going" construction over "his going". Unless I want to point out possession of the verb: "His going really upset me" kind of thing. "Him going really upset me" means something entirely different.
> >In English the plural endings and the inflections were leveled >because of contact with other languages, notably Old Norse and Norman >French. >
For what it's worth, I can't find an ON word with a plural in -s at all: nidhjar, soungvar, thakkir, etc. Of course Gordon is biased towards Icelandic - do Old Danish or whatever have lots of plurals in -(e)s?
>In Old English, there were a number of ways to form plurals. The >masculine a=stem was the most common, and that's what gave us our "s" >ending in the plural:
It is interesting to note how close the Norse and English declension was:
> > steinn stan stone nominative > steins stanes stone's genitive > steini stane stone dative > stein stan stone accusative > > steinar stanas stones nominative plural > steina stana stones' genitive plural > steinum stanum stones dative plura. > steina stanas stones accusative plural. > >Then there was neuter a stem which had no distinction between >singular and plural in the nominative and accusative cases: > > ordh word hors deor fisc > ordhs wordes horses deores fisces > ordhi worde horse deore fisce > ordh word hors deor fisc > > ordh word hors deor fisc > ordha worda horsa deora fisca > ordhum wordum horsum deorum fiscum > ordh word hors deor fisce >
>catch on); annihilate, which did. I have a whole list of these, if >anyone is interested. Notably, it was Shakespeare who contributed
I am! I think there was also a 12th or 13th century movement along the same lines, making English words for concepts that had French or Latin roots: ungothroughsome for impenetrable sort of thing.
>Another "real change": the change from hem to them. Hem sounded too >much like "him," so people in the south of England started adopting >Northern Scandinavian "them" to distinguish the two words. This >wasn't a change that was "foisted" on anyone. It just happened. >Language follows usage, and follows the masses. Often the >"privileged" masses, like the London dialect. Same with he and heo, >he and she. The two sounded too much alike, so the northern >Scandinavian form was adopted in the south. And in London. And >everyone followed suit.
Hem lives on, though: Give em hell, Sally! Padraic.
> >Sally >============================================================ >SALLY CAVES >scaves@frontiernet.net >http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves (bragpage) >http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/teonaht.html (T. homepage) >http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/contents.html (all else) >===================================================================== >Niffodyr tweluenrem lis teuim an. >"The gods have retractible claws." > from _The Gospel of Bastet_ >============================================================ >