Re: Naming the conlang

Hi Ray,
Thanks for the advise on the IPA symbols. I learned IPA in a high school
linguistics course which would have been in about 1977. Later on in my
posting I did ask for someone to help me find a table that showed the
equivalents of the abbreviations people use here (CXS).

I meant that the sound for 'ou' was a diphthong (the word I learned many
years ago to mean the sound that 2 vowels combined making one sound.) I
didn't mean that Omega was a diphthong. When I learned the sounds of Greek,
it was in 2 years of Greek classes taken to get my religious education
degree. Omega was what I learned in primary school "long o." I suppose I
could have said that the 's' was not voiced.

Now that I have looked at the chart showing the CXS system, perhaps you
could point me somewhere on the interenet where I can hear the sounds again
and remember IPA as having looked at this chart I can see that I my memory
is not nearly as good as my forgettory.

I know so well the difference in that English pronounciations vary. I'm from
the US and live in Canada. A southern US accent versus Bronx and
Newfoundland are all so markedly different.

Suffice it to say that I'm a hobby linguist and look forward to learning
more about it.
Cheers,
Scotto

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU]On
> Behalf Of Ray Brown
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 12:22 AM
> To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
> Subject: Re: Naming the conlang
>
>
> On Sunday, July 11, 2004, at 06:19 , Scotto Hlad wrote:
>
> [snip]
> > Vystoulor
> > V = v the same everywhere
> > y = the u umlaut in German or the u in French
> > s = the s that so many languages use (not like the s in Hungarian)
>
> As both [s] and [z] are very common pronunciations of |s| in English,
> French, German and many other languages, I think you need to clarify this.
>
> > t = the t that some many languages use
> > ou = a diphtong giving the Omega sound of Greek
>
> Eh? Greek omega is not and never has been a diphthong. Do mean 'digraph'?
> Also what sound do you mean by Greek omega? In Modern Greek both omega &
> omicron have the same sound, namely [O]. In ancient Greek of the 5th cent.
>   BC it was probably [O:] everywhere, but [o:] is likely to have been
> common in the Hellenistic period.
>
> > l = l that is the same everywhere
>
> It has two different sounds in English, the 'light' sound in 'light' and
> the 'heavy', velarized sound in 'field'.  French & German, on the other
> hand, have only the first of these two sounds. Some other languages, e.g.
> Russian, have both of the English sounds as two separate phonemes.
>
> > o = a short o. think in terms of the Czech or the omicron (Not "ah")
> Do you mean the Brit short 'o' in 'not' as opposed to the American
> pronunciation?
>
> > r = also a lightly trilled r
>
> Please, I do not want to put you off - I'm actually trying to be helpful.
>
> It is notoriously difficult to describe sounds of a language (whether it's
> a natlang or a constructed language) in terms "sounds like", especially if
> you choose English or an ancient language as the example. The problem with
> English is that even within the British isles, there is wide variation in
> the pronunciation of many sounds, and world-wide there's even more
> variation. The problem with using an ancient language, e.g. ancient greek,
>   is that we simply have no way of knowing how you pronounce it & other
> people will be using different pronunciations. I'm afraid _all_
> pronunciations of ancient Greek are artificial & conventional.
>
> I strongly advise you to learn the IPA (International Phonetic
> Association)
>   symbols for representing sounds unambiguously (the are several web-sites
> about this) and then, because of the limitations of ASCII, learn the
> 'Conlang extended SAMPA' CXS system used by most people here. I know it's
> a bit of work but, believe me, it really is worth it. It'll mean that you'
> ll be able to describe your sounds far more accurately and that you'll be
> able to follow various discussions about pronunciation that occur from
> time to time on Conlang.
>
> Happy conlanging!
>
> Ray
> ===============================================
> http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown
> ray.brown@freeuk.com    (home)
> raymond.brown@kingston-college.ac.uk   (work)
> ===============================================
> "A mind which thinks at its own expense will always
> interfere with language."         J.G. Hamann, 1760

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