Re: CHAT: pacifism

On Saturday, December 20, 2003, at 06:31 AM, J Y S Czhang wrote:
[snip]
>     The bone oracle dice have been cast, the handwriting is on the
> cracked,
> fracturing wall - _Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin_ ...
So the KJV has it - but the U- before last word is the Hebrew 'wau' and
just
means "and'.  The Jerusalem Bible translation has:
"_Mene, Mene, Tekel_ and _Parsin_"

The Septuagint has: Μανή, Θεκέλ, Φάρες
Tranliteration: "Mane:, Thekel, Phares"

The Vulgate has: Mane, Thecel, Phares

>     [Aramic,
Is it?  Then it's a bit that, according to the story, none of the king's
sages
could read it. I mean, Aramaic wasn't exactly an unknown language!

> literally translated:
My understanding is that the literal meaning of the words are unknown.

>         "numbered, numbered, weighed, divided"...
Connecting Mene/Mane with Aramaic _mena_ (according to one source)? Others
have suggested
connexion with te Greek _mna_ (Latinized as 'mina'), a Greek measure of
weight.

T(h)ekel - is usually thought to mean 'shekel' (another measurement of
weight).

'Parsin' in the extant Hebrew/Aramaic version is the plural of _Peres_
which is
actually given in the KJV of verse 28.  As for _Peres/ Phares_, I gather
there is
an Aramaic word _peres_ meaning 'divided'; but some have taken it as
_paras_ (a
weight of half a mna) and others have seen a connexion with _Paras_ (plural
_Pharsin_) "Persians".

Hopefully, the Semiticists on the list can comment on the Aramaic.

What we do have, of course, is Daniel's _interpretation_ of the writing.

[snip]
>         You & your Imperialistic, Decadent Civilization has been Counted
> &
> Counted Again, Weighed, is found severely Lacking-&-Wanting...
>         ... It will be Divided & Torn-Apart/Asunder in an Earth-shaking,
> world-shattering Final Conflict rivalling that of the Fall of the Roman
> Empire,...
..as the Roman Empire did _not_ fall in any earth-shaking,
world-shattering final
conflict - indeed, there was no even less dramatic final conflict - either
the
comparison doesn't hold good or we have nothing to be concerned about.

In one of his poems, T.S. Eliot wrote:
"This is the way the world ends, not in a bang but a whimper."

'twas certainly the way the Roman Empire ended - and the whimper was a few
centuries of withering away - no great bang.

So if the passing of our civilization is to rival that of Imperial Rome,
we're
in for a few centuries of gradual decline as a new order emerges
(presumably
neo-feudalism :) - but forget the apocalyptic bang.

Ray
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"A mind which thinks at its own expense will always
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