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Re: L1 learning question

From:Nik Taylor <fortytwo@...>
Date:Sunday, September 27, 1998, 0:08
Pablo Flores wrote:
> IIRC these verbs had long /o:/ in Latin, which was diphthongized in > Spanish as /we/ when stressed, and shortened to /o/ otherwise. It > might be that most present tense forms take the irregular inflection, > so the child is exposed to them all the time.
You're a little off. Those verbs in Latin had a *short* /o/. In early Vular Latin, the long/short distinction was lost, and a new tense/lax distinction was formed. /a/ and /a:/ fused /i/ --> /I/ /i:/ --> /i/ /u/ --> /U/ /u:/ --> /u /e/ --> /E/ /e:/ --> /e/ /o/ --> /O/ /o:/ --> /o/ Later, /I/ --> /e/ and /U/ --> /o/ (hence the modern masculine ending -o, from -u < -um) So, in Old Spanish, there were seven vowels, /i/, /e/, /E/, /a/, /O/, /o/, and /u/ (as in modern Portuguese and Italian). Stressed /E/ and /O/ regularly became /je/ and /wo/ (which then beceame /we/). So, a verb like /pOder/ was easily predictable as /pwedo/ in the 1st Sing. Later, unstressed /E/ and /O/ became /e/ and /o/. I suppose that since these "irregularities" occur in the present tense, they are heard often enough for children to recognize the pattern. So, I suppose they can't really be called "irregular". I've been thinking for a while that it could be argued that Spanish has *10* verb conjugations. Regular -ar, -er, and -ir, and seven classes of stem-changing verbs (-e-ar (as in pEnsAR), -e-er (pErdER), -o-ar (acOstAR), -o-er (mOvER), -e-ir I (sEntIR), -o-ir (mOrIR), and -e-ir II (pEdIR)). On the other extreme, since -er and -ir verbs are so similar, you could argue that there's really only two main conjugations, with -ir as a subtype of -er.
> "querer" -> "yo quiero, nosotros queremos" sometimes *"yo quero"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this common in informal adult speach as well? I'm pretty sure I've read of such analogies in at least *some* dialects of Spanish. Perhaps this is more likely to occur that *moro, because the change from quiero --> quero merely envolves dropping a /j/, while muero --> moro involves dropping a /w/ *and* changing the vowel to /o/. -- "Public media should not contain explicit or implied descriptions of sex acts. Our society should be purged of the perverts who provide the media with pornographic material while pretending it has some redeeming social value under the public's 'right to know.'" - Kenneth Star, 1987 ICQ: 18656696 AOL IM: Nik Tailor