Re: SVO vs SOV and A lot of other questions

--- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Costentin Cornomorus <elemtilas@Y...>
wrote:

> > Well, Old English and German and similar
> > languages certainly switch
> > between moving the verb to the second position
> > in normal clauses and
> > having the verb in the final position in
> > relative clauses, which is
> > similar, so I don't imagine there's anything
> > wrong with it.
>
> Kerno switches for emphasis:
>
> Gouezei me lâ  bo. (normal)
> saw     I  the cow
>
> Gouezei lâ  bo, il  ieo. (subject emphasis)
> saw     the cow the I
>
> Lâ  bo, gouezei-al ieo. (object emphasis)
> the cow saw-her I
Jovian marks case in the article, so it can switch around
too.  The nominative pronoun is optional, so using it
already counts as emphasis.

- Do ei bouve un appel.  [do e vowv @n 'app@l]
{give:1s he:DAT cow a:ACC apple}  (unmarked)

- Eo do ei bouve un appel.  [e@ do e vowv @n 'app@l]
{I give:1s he:DAT cow a:ACC apple}  (subj marked)

- Un appel do ei bouve.  [@n 'appel do e vowv]
{a:ACC apple give:1s he:DAT cow}  (d. obj marked)

- Ei bouve do un appel.  [e vowv do @n 'appel]
{he:DAT cow give:1s a:ACC apple}  (ind. obj marked)


In Obrenje (gosh, how long has it been?), things are a bit
syntax-sensitive.  Subjects can't come before the verb in
the same clause, so unmarked phrases before the verb are
taken to be predicative case objects.  |U| and |i| are case
prepositions, not articles.  Definiteness is marked as a
noun inflection, e.g. |mugi| ['mu:gi] "a cow, cows" vs.
|mugie| [mM'gi:] "the cow, the cows".

- Powze u mej i mugie.  [powZ M mej i mM'gi:]
{give:1 PRE fruit OBJ cow:the}  (unmarked: "I give a fruit
to the cow")

- Mej powze i mugie.  [mej powZ i mM'gi:]
{fruit give:1 OBJ cow:the}  (Here the predicative object is
fronted, but doesn't necessarily carry emphasis; rather, it
is incorporated into the verb action: "I fruit-give the
cow.")

- U mej powze i mugie.  [M mej powZ i mM'gi:]
{PRE fruit give:1 OBJ cow:the}  (The redundant predicative
case preposition is given here, drawing emphasis onto the
predicative object.)

- I mugie powze u mej.  [i mM'gi: powZ M mej]
{OBJ cow:the give:1 PRE fruit}  (Objective object marked.)

- Zae, powze u mej i mugie.  [za:  powZ M mej i mM'gi:]
{I // give:1 PRE fruit OBJ cow:the}  (Subject marked.
Since a subject phrase must not precede its verb in the
same clause, the subject |zae| "I" has to be mentioned
in a separate "declaration clause" (delimited by the comma)
and picked up again by a pronoun or a verb ending (as it is
the case here).)


Unlike usual noun phrases, personal pronouns are inflected
for case, and can be moved around the verb pretty freely.
They're even allowed to stack before the verb; something
which more elaborate noun objects cannot do.  This allows
us to use the declaration clause mechanics for objects as
well:

- Mej, e powze i mugie.  [mej  e powZ i mM'gi:]
{fruit // it:PRE give:1 OBJ cow:the}

- Mugie, je powze u mej.  [mM'gi:  j@ powZ M mej]
{cow:the // he:OBJ give:1 PRE fruit}

- Mugie, mej je powze.  [mM'gi:  mej j@ powZ]
{cow:the // fruit he:OBJ give:1}  "The cow, I fruit-give
him."

- E je powze.  [e j@ powZ]
{it:PRE he:OBJ give:1}  "I give it to him."

Etc, etc...




> > > Also, from the verb "to like" I derived 2
> > > adjectives, liked and
> > > likable. Is there such a major difference in
> > > these two, that it is
> > > reconmendable to make two adjective forms for
> > > all my words, one of them expressing "able?"
> >
> > From my English-bias, I'd say yes, but that
> > might just be a bias brought on by English :)
>
> Sure. Spanish doesn't have a verb that means
> "like" (gustarse means "please"), so can't form
> such derivatives. Kerno has placer-si, and is
> used like gustarse and please in English.
Jovian, being a derived language, has the luxury of coming
with two built-in derivations for those two adjectives:
|aware| [@'va:r] "to love" has |awadu| [@'va:d] "loved" and
|awaevel| [@'vajv@l] "lovable"; from Latin amâre, amâtus,
amâbilis, respectively.

Obrenje has active and passive participles for all tenses,
so from the verb |naq-| you can form |naqqe| [naN:]
"liking", |naqse| [naNS] "being liked", |neqqe| [nEN:]
"going to like", |neqse| [nENS] "going to be liked", |noqqe|
[nON:] "having liked", and |noqse| [nONS] "having been
liked".  It is customary to use the future passive form
(going to be liked) in the sense of "likable, destined to be
liked".



-- Christian Thalmann