Re: Fourth Persons

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:50:28 -0700, Aidan Grey <taalenmaple@...>
wrote:
>The Obviative isn't limited to HAS or Direct/Inverse systems. It can appear in
>almost any language.
Thanks.

I knew that Hierarchical Alignment languages and Direct/Inverse Voice
languages are not co-extensive.

Now I also know that obviatives can appear in other languages.

But the name "obviative" comes from the fact that it "obviates" confusion in
bivalent clauses with both participants animate third-person in such languages.


>You also have to be clear exactly what you mean by Obviative - there are a
>number of uses/definitions, IIRC.
What are some of the other uses and definitions?

>If it's just "other third persons", it's pretty common in Native American
>languages, used for non-focus arguments. For example, in a tale about
>Coyote, every third person other than Coyote would be in the 4th. That's
>one use, anyway.
Which non-Hierarchical non-Direct/Inverse North American languages does it
have such a use in?

>The "indefinite" combined with the Obviative is pretty common.
Thanks.  I didn't know that, and that answers one of my questions.
What are some languages that have both the obviative and the indefinite-
person?

>I don't know what you mean in #3 and 4, so I can't speak to that.
If you want to know I can tell you.

Logophoric Pronouns are so named because in certain African languages when
you are reporting speech, you have two extra third-person pronouns, one for
the person whose speech you are reporting ("logophoric first person"), and one
for the person who was originally addressed ("logophoric second person").

Long-Distance Reflexives can co-refer to the _Subject_ of _any_ containing
clause.
Some reflexives can co-refer to any _clause-mate_ higher in the Noun-Phrase
Accessibility Hierarchy (Subj > (Dir)Obj > IndObj > Obl > Possessor > Obj of
Comparison) that has previously been mentioned; but cannot co-refer to
anything outside their own clause. That is, for instance, such a reflexive in a
subordinate clause cannot refer to a participant in its matrix clause nor in the
main clause; but if it's in the IO position it can refer to the DO, or if it's in an
Oblique position it can refer to the DO or the IO; (that is it's not restricted to
referring to the Subject).
Long-Distance Reflexives, OTOH, can refer to the subject of the matrix clause,
of the matrix's matrix, ..., up to the subject of the main clause; even if the
clause the LDR actually occurs in, is very deeply embedded.

>Aidan
Thanks, Aidan.

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