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Re: OT Van Gogh (was: Yogh in the news)

From:Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>
Date:Tuesday, January 17, 2006, 1:12
Hi!

René Uittenbogaard <ruittenb@...> writes:
> On 1/16/06, Henrik Theiling <theiling@...> wrote: > > > with the side note that many dialects have [X] for /x/ and [R] for > > /r/, so you get > > > > [X] vs [R] vs [XR] > > > > goot [XoU)t] - poured; gutter > > rood [RoU)t] - red > > groot [XRoU)t] - big > > My realisation of these tends to be: > > [XoU)t] > [R\oU)t] > [R\_0oU)t]
Funny, this much more like the labial tree-way distinction then. Very nice.
>... > And tongue-breaking for the two African men I know (one from Burundi, > one from Congo) who are learning Dutch ATM. :-/ I'm trying to tell > them to use [r] instead of [R\], but I can't pronounce [r].
I had to practice quite a while for the above triplet. But the Dutch vowels pose a more severe problem to Germans as well: that the original length distinction with secondary quality distinction (as it is in German) is now a mainly quality-only distinction is really hard to do. I found [i] vs [I] and [eI)] vs [EI)] really hardcore in fluent speech: _vies_ vs _vis_ _mee_ vs _mij_
> > Dutch has a /v/ vs. /v_0/ vs. /f/ distinction (at least in many > > dialects. In others, mostly Southern, it's /w/ vs. /v/ vs. /f/, > > I don't know of any [v] realisations of |w|. I'd say: > > |w| - [w] or [v\] > |v| - [v] or [v_0] > |f| - [f]
Ah, ok. Although the Dutch people I lived with were picky about my vowels, the did not seem to notice I pronounced |w| as [v]. Perhaps it was close enough. :-) **Henrik -- Relay 13 is forthcoming: http://www.conlang.info/relay/relay13.html