Re: Ygyde as an IAL

This message is specifically for Andrew Nowicki, and all those with any
interest in the Ygyde language.  In it, I discuss my earlier post in my own
attempt at using Ygyde.  According to Andrew, it was incomprehensible.
Seeing as Ygyde is a logical language, I break the words down, morpheme by
morpheme, to see if any sense can be made out of them.  I ask for your
feedback on whether or not my explanation 1) makes sense and 2) is in line
with the forms of Ygyde.


From: "Andrew Nowicki" <andrew@...>
Subject: Re: Ygyde as an IAL


> Your texts do not follow grammatical rules of
> Ygyde and contain plenty of words that are not
> defined in the dictionary. I have no idea what
> your texts mean.

To quote the Ygyde Primer (http://phz.web1000.com/ygydep.htm):

   "There are currently no actual grammatical rules in Ygyde."

The text I translated into Ygyde was straight from English, keeping the same
word order as much as possible.  So any preconceived grammatical notions I
might have used should be the same as those such notions that you would use,
both of us being English speakers.

As far as word creation goes, I used the word-creation tables from the Ygyde
Primer.  Each of their syllables has a single, defined meaning.
Unfortunately, many of the things I wanted to say did not have any way to be
easily said in Ygyde.  According to the Primer,

   "Ygyde is also a logical language, meaning that it was created with the
intention of having as little syntactical ambiguity as possible."

I'm going to go through and explain why I translated my first message (being
the longer of the two) the way I did.  Since apparently you couldn't
understand any of it, I obviously do not understand the rules of Ygyde.  It
looks like a very interesting concept for a language (so much so that it
inspired me to make my own!), so I'd very much appreciate it if you'd follow
through my message here and then show me how you would say the same thing,
but correctly.

--- The original message:
   Ila uzipy y edeja osoji iko ykidu:  Ygyde apinolu iby?
   Ilu igo uzoce idi a ilu otupo ososode, ije eba ilu eba izaji owi onolu.
Ica
e ilu itu ebu ebe ucofulu ososode y, ilu ufesilu igo ufaza idi a ofa ysy a
opyso a otyge.  Ini ida Ygyde ija upici ili ibo?  Ojy olelu ila ujema ida a
ilu osocilu ili agy igocilu afu o odesy.
   Ije ige ilu, ila ujema o ysi.  Olo odi, agosylu inomalu ilu iju iju eba
igo
ugynolu idi ypy icylu agytulu odesy.  O omamelusy a Ygyde ija agosylu igu
ofa o ypy itu otyge.  Inu ogodete u akasy anodi.
   Ije ilu iki o ila ymuci.  Ili usinolu ymuci a agifo ypy.  Ica e o ypy any
uwolu utumume ilu, ima e ini ili ykekilu e any aka akaku y y y ilu epa ebe
ucofulu ili a ilu o otupo eba utumume ilu unozymo.
   Ini o otupo a ilu yde umulu ibo?


We'll break it down into one sentence at a time.  Given the length of this
text, we will only use the first two paragraphs.  All of my citations and
syllable meanings are taken straight from the Ygyde Primer, the address of
which I have posted above.  For each word, I am separating individual
morphemes with a period/full-stop.  Starting from the top, we have:


   Ila uzipy y edeja osoji iko ykidu:

ila = 1st-person-pronoun
uzipy = verb.mobile.person
y = )
edeja = adjective.language.craftsman
osoji = noun.group.place
iko = with
ykidu = noun.massive.knowledge

Reading this over, what can we figure out?  The "y" is clearly a mistake, as
it must accompany a preceding "e", which it does not do.  But leaving that
aside, what do the words mean?  "Uzipy" is some sort of action, involving a
person, and involving motion.  Surely it must mean a verb like "to go" or
"to walk", where a person is the actor.  "Edeja"?  It's about a
language-craftsman.  That seems like a perfectly good name for a conlanger
to me.  So as an adjective, this must mean "conlanger-ish".  And "osoji" is
the place of a group.  According to the Primer, adjectives must go next to
the word they describe, so "edeja osoji" must mean "place of a conlangers'
group".  Given the forum in which the message was written, this could easily
mean the Conlang e-mail list.  "Ykidu" is some body of knowledge, followed
by a colon, indicating that perhaps that which follows is that object.  So
it seems that this sentence says: "I go conlangers' group with a
knowledge-thing:"  It's not clear what the speaker intends to present, but
we know he's bringing it to the Conlang group.


   Ygyde apinolu iby?

ygyde = noun.simple.language
apinolu = adjective.attractive.true.abstraction
iby = question (that requires a yes/no answer)

According to the Primer, under the comments on "ufolu", no verb is required
where the copula is used in English.  So this yes/no question means: "Is
Ygyde attractive/true?".


   Ilu igo uzoce idi a ilu otupo ososode, ije eba ilu eba izaji owi onolu.

ilu = this/it/its/these
igo = passive
uzoce = verb.busy.communication
idi = by (indicating author, agent, etc.)
a = of
ilu = this/it/its/these
otupo = noun.manager.parent
ososode = noun.good.group.language
ije = but
eba = past
ilu = this/it/its/these
eba = past
izaji = verb.container.place
owi = little
onolu = noun.work.abstraction

Only a few words here that aren't defined by a single word in English.
"Uzoce" is some sort of communciative action that is quite busy.  "Izaji" is
an action containing something in place.  Perhaps "to have" or "to keep"?
"Onolu" is an abstraction of "work".  It could mean "action" or "success",
perhaps.  "Ososode" is interesting.  It's something good, and it involves a
group, and it has to do with language.  What would be a good group language?
Probably a language that would be spoken by a group, and would be good for
that group.  Sounds like an auxlang to me.  Let's put this sentence
together, "It is busily-communicated by its manager-parent language auxlang,
but in the past it had-kept little action-success."


   Ica e ilu itu ebu ebe ucofulu ososode y, ilu ufesilu igo ufaza idi a ofa
ysy a
opyso a otyge.

ica = if
e = (
ilu = this/it/its/these
itu = at/near
ebu = period-of-time
ebe = future
ucofulu = verb.changing.new.abstraction
ososode = noun.good.group.language
y = )
ilu = this/it/its/these
ufesilu = verb.legal.safe.abstraction
igo = passive
ufaza = verb.owned.container
idi = by
a = of
ofa = almost-complete
ysy = part
a = of
opyso = noun.person.group
a = of
otyge = noun.country.environment

"Ucofulu" seems to indicate something becoming new.  "Ososode" (as discussed
above) seems to mean "auxlang".  "Ufesilu" is something both legal and safe,
but abstract.  By virtue of the fact that is is both legal and safe, it's
probably required, or at least recommended.  As an abstraction, that's
probably all the definition we'll get from it.  "Ufaza" is some sort of verb
like "to hold".  "Opyso a otyge" is a group of people, the people of the
environment of countries.  This could mean the world as a whole.  So what do
we have?  "If it in future time becomes auxlang, it ought to / must be held
by almost-complete part's people of world."


   Ini ida Ygyde ija upici ili ibo?

ini = what
ida = in
ygyde = noun.simple.language
ija = assumption/hypothesis
upici = verb.attractive.manipulation
ili = that/it/its/those
ibo = question (that requires a more elaborated reply)

This is a pretty straightforward question.  "What in Ygyde would
cause-to-seem-good/make-attractive it?"


   Ojy olelu ila ujema ida a ilu osocilu ili agy igocilu afu o odesy.

ojy = one
olelu = noun.unit.abstraction
ila = 1st-person-pronoun
ujema = verb.gained.detector
ida = in
a = of
ilu = this/it/its/these
osocilu = noun.good.manipulation.abstraction
ili = that/it/its/those
agy = simple
igocilu = verb.complex.manipulation.abstraction
afu = new
o = plural
odesy = noun.language.part

"Ujema" could mean "to begin to detect" or something like that.  "Osocilu"
is some abstract quality of goodness and change.  Perhaps "benefit"?
"Igocilu" seems to be "to create" for something complex.  And "odesy"?
Perhaps "sentence" or "word" or "morpheme".  So this sentence could mean
something like: "One thing I begin to detect in its benefit, that simple to
make new words."


Let's look at what we've got so far.

   I go conlangers' group with a knowledge-thing: Is Ygyde attractive/true?
   It is busily-communicated by its manager-parent language auxlang, but in
the past it had-kept little action-success.  If it in future time becomes
auxlang, it ought to / must be held by almost-complete part's people of
world.  What in Ygyde would cause-to-seem-good/make-attractive it?  One
thing I begin to detect in its benefit, that simple to make new words.

Now, I know that, Andrew, you say this text was incomprehensible, but it
doesn't seem that way to me.  Even if my grammar was wrong, it seems to have
some obvious meaning.  But I'm no expert on Ygyde.  And so, I submit to you
the full text of the original message, as I wrote it in English.  Please
show me how I should have translated it into Ygyde, which looks like an
interesting language.  Don't give up on it too quickly!



I come to the conlang list with a question:  Is Ygyde plausible?

It is proposed by its creator to be an auxlang, but so far it has had little
success.  If it is ever to become an auxlang, it must be accepted by a
substantial portion of the world's population.  What about Ygyde would
promote that?  The only thing I see in its favor is that it's easy to make
up new words.

But against it, I see several factors.  First, it is hard to figure out what
exactly was meant by someone using a particular word.  The sounds of Ygyde
would be very difficult for most people in the world.  And the grammar is
poorly defined.

But this is only my opinion.  What matters is the opinion of the common man.
If people are not willing to learn it, for whatever reason - no matter how
petty - it will never become what its creators intended it to be.

What do the makers of this language think?

Joe Fatula

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