Re: A break in the evils of English (or, Sturnan is beautiful)

En réponse à Christian Thalmann <cinga@...>:

>
> You have to raise your tongue higher to pronounce /e/.  That's more
> articulation.  ;-)
>
Actually i could argue that the resting position of my tongue is above [e] and
[E]. So actually to pronounce both I have to lower my tongue, and more for [E]
than for [e]. So actually in both cases it's more articulation for [E] :)) .

>
> Well, lax vowels are usually characterized by being closer to the
> schwa than the tense ones.  They require less deviation from the
> neutral schwa position.
>
In this case, my [e] is laxer than [E], at least for the tongue position. But
since both are cardinal vowels, as somebody already said none of them is laxer
than the other. There both as far from resting position as the other.

> >
> > Oops! The second one was never ever pronounced that way. [robinE] is
> an old
> > pronunciation that died more then one century ago
>
> Then I wonder why it's taught at our schools.
>
Because the people who teach you never put a foot in France? :)) Anyway, it's
not my fault if what you're taught is not what is actually used in France.

> >
> > Or an accent grave to è! Or an accent circonflexe ê! or |ai|, or
> |ei|!
>
> These are all /E/ in my experience.
I was talking about [E] indeed! Just saying that to mark a [E], French had to
resort to many more different ways than to mark a [e], implying that since
what's felt simple is marked less than what's felt not simple, by French
standards [e] had to be felt simpler than [E] (but all this is quite tongue-in-
cheek of course :)) ).

>
> > Is it? What's the difference between "most basic" and "purest"?
>
> What's the difference between "primitive" and "elite"?
>
I don't know, when it's about phonology... Care to enlighten me, because you
don't answer my question, which was about sounds, not about people.

>
> I heartily agree.  How could any language that writes /waso/ and
> /2:/ as |oiseaux| and |oeufs| be considered normal?  ;-)
>
The fact that it's 95% phonetic, unlike English spelling? There is a difference
between complex and irregular. French spelling is complex, but mostly regular
(|oeufs| is only a half-exception, since the only irregularity is the silent
|f|. The rest of the spelling is regular. And it's /2/, there is no phonemic
length in French - despite probably what you're taught -).

Christophe.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr

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