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Re: rhotics (was: Hellenish oddities)

From:Roger Mills <romilly@...>
Date:Monday, November 27, 2000, 0:01
Douglas Koller wrote:
>Géarthnuns has the Spanish r (the letter "rín"), which I believe is written >in Kirshenbaum as /*/; it also has what I've described as a very breathy, >voiceless French r, sort of like the "r" in "encre" or "battre" in allegro >speech,
Theoretically, that should be an uvular fricative, devoiced in these particular environments....but I wonder if it hasn't been drawn forward (to _velar_) due to the preceding palatal/dental consonants??? (I've never been able to produce a proper French trilled uvular /r/-- sounds a bit like imitating a dog's growl). but only syllable initial in Géarthnuns (I think /X/?)(the letter
>"rhamas"). However, having recently heard a story on Radio Netherlands via >National Public Radio about menopause counselors in the Netherlands (they >used the word, "overgang" or "overgrang"?, "transition" now expanded in >meaning to "menopause"), I am now wondering if Dutch "g" or "gr" might be a >better description, 'cause it sounded damn close. Anyway, the Géarthçins >perceive "rhamas" as the "cousin" of "vaukh", another letter like the
>"ch" in "Bach" (/x/), which is only syllable final and non-rhoticized.
That would be "overgang". Dutch /g/ is a voiceless velar fricative, with, to my ear, lots of friction (and potential spray ;-) ). Again, in this particular word, I'm not sure how the preceding r (possibly uvular in Dutch???) might be affecting the g. Since syl-final "vaukh" and syl-initial "rhamas" are in complimentary distribution, they could well be "the same sound", even if one is velar, the other uvular.