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Re: reformed Welsh Spelling - comments?

From:Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>
Date:Friday, December 5, 2003, 20:15
On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 09:20 PM, Andreas Johansson wrote:

[snip]

> Then perhaps you can answer the question I had under the assumption that > it > was meant to be [X]?
Correct - it was meant to be SAMPA [X], i.e. IPA cursive Greek khi.
> Namely, what other languages are you thinking of that > writes it as |ch|? I still can't think of any.
{sigh} I meant a voiceles "guttural" fricative (i.e. using 'guttural' in its older pre-feature-geometry sense), i.e. any voiceless fricative made at back of the mouth, whether velar [x] or uvular [X]. I know of no European language that has these as two distinct meanings; and I have been told that Welsh is not the only European language to possess it. IIRC a linguist from that part of the world told me it varied in different Slav langs - but either pronunciation on the part of L2 speakers is understood. In short, I meant all those languages where popular books say, as they do for Welsh: "like the _ch_ in Scots _loch_." They are: German ach-laut (the Welsh _bach_ (little) & German _Bach_ (brook) are so similar that most would consider them the same sound - and, yes, I do know about ich-laut) Polish |ch| Czech |ch| Slovak |ch| inter alia. I have spent a lot of time today trying to check out (no pun intended) the exact pronunciation in these languages, but even searching on Google produced confused results (I did discover that the _Castilian_ pronunciation of its |j| is [X] - tho texts books again generally say "like ch in Scots _loch_" :) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 10:29 PM, Christian Thalmann wrote:
> --- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Andreas Johansson <andjo@F...> wrote: > >> Then perhaps you can answer the question I had under the assumption >> that it >> was meant to be [X]? Namely, what other languages are you thinking >> of that >> writes it as |ch|? I still can't think of any. > > Swiss and Austrian dialects, Dutch, Scottish, present-day > Welsh, Irish Gaelic...
Yep - add those as well. Ray =============================================== http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown ray.brown@freeuk.com (home) raymond.brown@kingston-college.ac.uk (work) =============================================== Ray =============================================== http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown ray.brown@freeuk.com (home) raymond.brown@kingston-college.ac.uk (work) ===============================================

Replies

Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>
Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...>
Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@...>