Re: reformed Welsh Spelling - comments?
| From: | Ray Brown <ray.brown@...> |
|---|
| Date: | Friday, December 5, 2003, 20:15 |
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On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 09:20 PM, Andreas Johansson wrote:
[snip]
> Then perhaps you can answer the question I had under the assumption that
> it
> was meant to be [X]?
Correct - it was meant to be SAMPA [X], i.e. IPA cursive Greek khi.
> Namely, what other languages are you thinking of that
> writes it as |ch|? I still can't think of any.
{sigh} I meant a voiceles "guttural" fricative (i.e. using 'guttural' in
its
older pre-feature-geometry sense), i.e. any voiceless fricative made at
back
of the mouth, whether velar [x] or uvular [X]. I know of no European
language
that has these as two distinct meanings; and I have been told that Welsh
is not
the only European language to possess it. IIRC a linguist from that part
of the
world told me it varied in different Slav langs - but either
pronunciation on the part of L2 speakers is understood.
In short, I meant all those languages where popular books say, as they do
for
Welsh: "like the _ch_ in Scots _loch_."
They are:
German ach-laut (the Welsh _bach_ (little) & German _Bach_ (brook) are so
similar
that most would consider them the same sound - and, yes, I do know about
ich-laut)
Polish |ch|
Czech |ch|
Slovak |ch|
inter alia.
I have spent a lot of time today trying to check out (no pun intended) the
exact
pronunciation in these languages, but even searching on Google produced
confused
results (I did discover that the _Castilian_ pronunciation of its |j| is
[X] -
tho texts books again generally say "like ch in Scots _loch_" :)
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On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 10:29 PM, Christian Thalmann wrote:
> --- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Andreas Johansson <andjo@F...> wrote:
>
>> Then perhaps you can answer the question I had under the assumption
>> that it
>> was meant to be [X]? Namely, what other languages are you thinking
>> of that
>> writes it as |ch|? I still can't think of any.
>
> Swiss and Austrian dialects, Dutch, Scottish, present-day
> Welsh, Irish Gaelic...
Yep - add those as well.
Ray
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Ray
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