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Re: Ong Rokbeigalmki (A Rokbeigalmki Chant)

From:Don Blaheta <dpb@...>
Date:Thursday, September 30, 1999, 7:48
Quoth Thomas R. Wier:
> "From Http://Members.Aol.Com/Lassailly/Tunuframe.Html" wrote: > > 2nd pl. pers. of "aller" ("to go") > > je vais > > tu vas > > il/elle va > > nous allons > > vous allez > > ils/elles vont > > one french most regular verbs (future : "j'irai" etc.)
Surely he meant "irregular". This verb, along with =EAtre "be" and avoir "have", are among the most common and most irregular in French.
> That looks to be an interesting example of suppletion > there. Do you know anything about its origins?
Larousse indicates that the all- forms (present tense allons and allez, infinitive aller, participle all=E9, and all the subjunctive and imperfect forms) derive from Latin *ambulare*, "to walk", while the va- forms (present tense vais, vas, va, and vont) are from *vadere* and the ir- forms (all future and conditionel forms) are from *ire*; both meaning "to go". Iirc from my Latin class, vadere and ire were already suppleted by classical times, no?
> And what are the phonetic renderings of those forms? > (I'm a nonfrancophone here.)
vais =3D /ve/ vas =3D va =3D /va/ vont =3D /v=F5/ allons =3D /a'l=F5/ allez =3D /a'le/
> > i suggest that - for the sake of mere regularity - "allez" be > > spelled "alez". more scientific improvements welcome.
I can't _imagine_ what the form "alez" buys you.
> Well, that depends on a lot of things, on an (explicit) understanding > of the entire grammatical system of French. For example, if French > pronouns really do act more like prefixes now on verbs than as > separate unbound morphemes, it might be better to accept this in the > official orthography.
They're not quite there yet, although it is starting to seem like they're headed that way. You can treat each of the nominatives as clitics ("Moi, je pense..."; "Marie, elle a dit..."; "Eux, ils sont...") by putting either an elabourated or pronominal subject before them (those translate directly as "Me, I think..."; "Marie, she said..."; and "Them, they are..."), but that can still sound a bit stilted at times. Who can say what direction that will eventually take, though? --=20 -=3D-Don< ~dpb/>-=3D- If God had meant for us to be naked, we would have been born that way.