Re: Ong Rokbeigalmki (A Rokbeigalmki Chant)

Quoth Thomas R. Wier:
> "From Http://Members.Aol.Com/Lassailly/Tunuframe.Html" wrote:
> > 2nd pl. pers. of "aller" ("to go")
> > je vais
> > tu vas
> > il/elle va
> > nous allons
> > vous allez
> > ils/elles vont
> > one french most regular verbs (future : "j'irai" etc.)
Surely he meant "irregular".  This verb, along with =EAtre "be" and avoir
"have", are among the most common and most irregular in French.

> That looks to be an interesting example of suppletion
> there.  Do you know anything about its origins?
Larousse indicates that the all- forms (present tense allons and allez,
infinitive aller, participle all=E9, and all the subjunctive and imperfect
forms) derive from Latin *ambulare*, "to walk", while the va- forms
(present tense vais, vas, va, and vont) are from *vadere* and the ir-
forms (all future and conditionel forms) are from *ire*; both meaning
"to go".  Iirc from my Latin class, vadere and ire were already
suppleted by classical times, no?

> And what are the phonetic renderings of those forms?
> (I'm a nonfrancophone here.)
vais =3D /ve/
vas =3D va =3D /va/
vont =3D /v=F5/
allons =3D /a'l=F5/
allez =3D /a'le/

> > i suggest that - for the sake of mere regularity - "allez" be
> > spelled "alez".  more scientific improvements welcome.
I can't _imagine_ what the form "alez" buys you.

> Well, that depends on a lot of things, on an (explicit) understanding
> of the entire grammatical system of French.  For example, if French
> pronouns really do act more like prefixes now on verbs than as
> separate unbound morphemes, it might be better to accept this in the
> official orthography.
They're not quite there yet, although it is starting to seem like
they're headed that way.  You can treat each of the nominatives as
clitics ("Moi, je pense..."; "Marie, elle a dit..."; "Eux, ils sont...")
by putting either an elabourated or pronominal subject before them
(those translate directly as "Me, I think..."; "Marie, she said..."; and
"Them, they are..."), but that can still sound a bit stilted at times.
Who can say what direction that will eventually take, though?

--=20
-=3D-Don Blaheta-=3D-=3D-dpb@cs.brown.edu-=3D-=3D-<http://www.cs.brown.edu/=
~dpb/>-=3D-
If God had meant for us to be naked, we would have been born that way.