Re: tSat: Re: 'tEst 'pli:z ig'nOr\

T. A. McLeay skrev:
 > On 01/02/07, Benct Philip Jonsson <conlang@...>
 > wrote: ^^ Thanks Mark, that looks much betterly!
 >
 >> "T. A. McLeay" <relay@...> hat escreut:
 >
 >
 >> The Russian pronunciations are IIANM /'i:g@r;/ and
 >> /I'va:n/ (Yitzik are you listening? You even used to be
 >> an Igor IIRC?)
 >
 > I did not think that Russian made a distinction of length.

Yes, those transcriptions should've been flagged as
phone_t_ic. Sorry. I started out phone_m_ic without lengths,
then thought I better add lengths, but forgot to change the
delimiters.

 >
 >>  > I imagine the nearest vowel in my speech to the
 >>  > Russian vowel is in fact "short i". (The Russian word
 >>  > _ty_ ("you") is sometimes very close to how I pronouce
 >>  > the name of the fourth letter of the (English)
 >>  > alphabet, altho the Russian vowel usually strikes me
 >>  > as broader than I'd aim for...)
 >>
 >> Russian has both /i/, Romanized _i_, and /i\/, Romanized
 >> _y_ as different phonemes.
 >
 > Indeed, it was that contrast that I was alluding to by
 > observing that "y" sounds more like my /Ii/ than "i" does,
 > or vice versa.

Yes, stressed /i\/ tends towards [i\j], and probably did in
Old Bulgarian too, as Old Church Slavic used the spelling
ЪI or ЪИ, consisting of Ъ /U\/ and /i/. Also I read
somewhere that the spelling ИЙ in the Russian adjective
ending is a Church Slavicism for what in natural Russian
should have been unstressed ОЙ [@j].

(In phonetic transcription with Cyrillic letters Russians do
use Ъ for [@] just like Bulgarian orthography uses it for
/@/. I'm as sure as can be that the OBul. Ь and Ъ were
/I\/ and /U\/ however.)

 > Hence that "Igor"/"Ivan" with a "long e" vowel is not
 > particularly much more apt than with a "long i" vowel.
 > Perhaps I should try saying what I mean, instead of
 > expecting people to jump to my conclusions :)

Or at least point out clearly that the FLEECE vowel is [Ii]
for you! :-) But is the KIT vowel really [i] for you? No
wonder that Aussies and Kiwis find their accents *very*
different, since Kiwi KIT is [I\] or even [@]!

FÖNNi huåt KAJND av ä THRED maj TEST messidzh SPANed!

Hmm. My Swedish-English pronunciation key might perhaps be
something for IKEA to use in their ädVÖRTizmunt!

(Yes, I know some people say _udVÖRTizmunt_ and some say
_ädverTAJZmunt_, and my pronunciation is a hopeless
hodgepodge -- the ideal pronunciation in English the IAL
probably being _ÄDvurtajzmunt_, which indeed is a minority
RP pronunciation. I'm sure different L1 speakers stress it
on any of the syllables, so please no discussion of that!)
--


/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se

    a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot

                                 (Max Weinreich)

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