Re: tongue twisters

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:50:11 -0400, Roger Mills <rfmilly@...> wrote:
>Keith Gaughan wrote:
>> Mark Reed wrote:
>> > Mark J. Reed wrote:
>> > On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 11:04:38AM -0400, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>> >> I was speaking Spanish this morning and wished to express the meaning
>> >> of the English saying "The grass is always greener . . .".  So I said
>> >> "La hierba es siempre mas verde . . .".
>> >
>> > BTW, that should be |más|.
>> >
>> >> I meant to say [la 'jE4.ba Es 'sjEm.pre mas 'bE4.de]
>> >
>> > Or something like that.  For some reason, |r|s confuse me; is a voiced
>> > stop after them fricativized or not?  That is, should it be
>> > ['jE4.ba]/['bE4.de] or ['jE4.Ba]/['bE4.De]?
>>
>> Don't have my grammar with me at work, but I believe it's only between
>> vowels, so it'd be ['jE4.ba]/['bE4.de]. Or wait: isn't <v>/<b> always
>> [B], or am I raving?
>
> Memory is fading, but I think /d/ can be [D] after /r/; definitely [d]
> after other C's and word-initial. Not sure about after /l/-- I think [d].
>
> Similarly b/v and g: [b], [g] word-initial and post-C, [B] [G]
> intervocalic.
There is some lectal variation, after consonants, but I would have
pronounced it either [la 'J\E4.Ba e 'siem.p4e mah 'bE4.De] or [la 'J\E4.Ba
e 'siem.p4e mas 'BE4.De]. Also the fricative allophones can occur word-
initial as well, except after a pause or the appropriate consonant.

I

PS I *think* I've straightened out the quote attribution.