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Re: weird celtic sentence - help!

From:R A Brown <ray@...>
Date:Friday, October 21, 2005, 8:18
Elliott Lash wrote:
> topics. There's no mention of what language they're > in, but it seems to be some sort of Celtic.
In the same sort of way that Sindarin seems to be, methinks.
> I checked > both Cornish and Breton dictionaries for clues, but I > dont think the sentences are in either of those. I'm > sure it's not Welsh.
You're correct - the sentences do have a sort of 'Brittonic-Celtic' appearance, Dialect A being sort of 'Welshish' & Dialect B being more like Cornish or Breton in feel. But I detect at least one Gaelic feature :)
> That leaves a conlang.
Indeed it does - and they must surely be a conlang. [snip]
> There seem to be 2 dialects and furthermore some minor > variation with the dialects themselves:
Well, maybe at the time you were experimenting with different possibilities?
> DIALECT A: > 1) Dyliet py sedw? > "Will you go to university?"
Presumably -(e)t means "you" - but the stem _dyl_ is not a Brittonic one for 'go'. In fact all the lexical morphemes here seem to be original creations. Welsh for 'to' is _i_ and 'university' is _prifysgol_.
> > 2) Cha, sym fi. > "Yes, I am *[going to go]"
_sym_ is reminiscent of Latin 'sum' and _fi_ is spelled the same as Welsh 'fi' [vi] (a common mutation of 'mi') = 'I/ me'.
> > 3) Wys dy na ddoled py te hedw? > "Are you going to the university?"
_dy_ is the Welsh for 'thy/ your', the pronoun being _ti_ (with soft mutation _di_). _na_ is possibly an inversion of the Welsh predicate particle 'yn' [@n] and _ddoled_ is presumably modeled on the Welsh verbnoun with -ed, which is one of the possible suffixes. _te_ = 'the' is very 'un-Celtic' but has of course parallels in some other IE langs. But the soft mutation of _sedw_ --> _hedw_ is interesting as this is not a feature of the Brittonic langs, but is a feature of the Gaelic langs :)
> > 4) Cha, sym e^. > "Yes, I am *[going to go]" > > (with _e^_ instead of _fi_ for "I")
Umm - I have no suggestions for the change of _fi_ to _e^_
> > 5) Chascwr sym e^. > "Of course, I am *[going to go]" > > 6) Ce^yth dwy t'elrynoch gydot? > "What is the name [at you]?"
_Ce^yth_ if from a PIE with initial k_w- is a Gaelic and not a Brittonic feature (the Brittonic lags have initial p- in such cases). _dyw_ "is" is reminiscent of welsh 'ydwy' "is". _elrynoch_ would seem to be an original coinage, but _gydot_ a bit like the south Walian 'gyda ti' "with you".
> > 7) Heldy dwy t'elrynoch gydom. > "Heldy is the name [at me]."
Yes, conjugated prepositions are a feature of all the Insular Celtic langs.
> > 8) Heldy dwy cha. > "Heldy is it" > > 9) Ce^yth wys dy na wnar? > "What are you doing?"
Thinks: "Is _wnar_ a mix of Welsh _(g)wneud_ and Romance forms like Fr. faire, It. fare (Esperanto 'fari')?
> > 9) Sym e^ dyscibyl. > "I am a student."
_dyscibyl_ is obviously meant to be a borrowing from Latin _discipulus_ after the manner of welsh 'disgybl'.
> > DIALECT B; > 1) As te dholed av th'universitet? > "Are you going to the university?"
This dialect borrows more from the neighboring Romance lang, I guess :)
> > 2) Vi, em ew. > "Yes, I am."
Interesting - _em_ is both reminiscent of English _am_ and Greek _eimi_; similar forms are of course found in other IE langs. _ew_ is similar to Portuguese & Romanian 'eu' = "I".
> > 3) As te dheul ov ar universitet? > "Are you going to the university?" > > (with _dheul_ instead of _dholed_ for "going", and > _ar_ instead of _th'_ for "the". _av_ is spelled _ov_ > here for "to")
Umm - _ar_ is one of the Breton forms of "the" (ar/ al/ an).
> > 4) Wi, em ew. > "Yes I am." > > (with _vi_ spelled as _wi_ for "yes")
French _oui_ ??
> 5) Kealar as d'errneuc'h te? > "What is your name your?"
Do I detect the Breton spelling convention _c'h_ = /x/?
> > 6) Herik as ho. > "Herik is it." > > 7) Kealar as te farket? > "what are you doing?"
_farket_ shows even more Romance influence than _wnar_ ;)
> > 8) Em ew astudyan~. > "I am a student"
Surely the Breton convention of spelling [a~] as _añ_ - but this time a borrowing (via the neighboring Romance lang) from Latin _studente(m)_. Interesting - but I have no doubt they are conlangs. I would guess that Dialect is meant to be more heavily influenced by a Romance speaking neighbor than is Dialect A - sort of like Breton vis-a-vis Welsh. Were you possibly sketching out an alternative to IB? -- Ray ================================== ================================== MAKE POVERTY HISTORY