Re: Tricky translations

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 10:58:55AM -0800, Sai Emrys wrote:
> > Maybe it is an anadewism after all. But I don't know how the Japanese
> > "ne" or the Láadan "Báada" work. Care to elaborate?
>
> ANADEW = another new and different ....?
Another Natlang's Already Dunnit Except Worse :-)


> Baada = sentence-beginning marker (one of several); this one, I think,
> indicates a question, spoken as a joke. (It's droppable in some
> circumstances.)
Not quite the same as the TF complement, then. (See below.)


> "Ne" in Japanese goes on the end of a sentence, and is roughly
> equivalent to the English "..., isn't it" though not quite. There's
> another use of it though - at the beginning of a sentence, it's more
> like "hmm / hey / [general sound of pondering and getting attention]".
Still not quite the TF complement.


> I'm sure someone else around here can give better explanations of both.
I hope so.


> > In Tatari Faran, every verb has one or more possible complements, and
> > so does every adjective.
>
> Could you describe exactly what they do (by context)?
[...]

Tatari Faran complements are essentially end-of-sentence markers, but
they are also synonymous (or complementary) to the verb or adjectival
predicate. They only appear in indicative statements and sometimes
imperative statements, and reinforce or re-emphasize the verb or
adjective.

For example:

	huu sa  tapa buara   na  bata.
	1sp CVY walk volcano RCP COMPL
	"I walk to the volcano." (Complement untranslated.)

The complement _bata_ means "to walk", and is synonymous with the verb
_tapa_. It appears here as a reinforcement of the verb.

Now an adjectival example:

	huara sa  firat fai.
	lake  CVY blue  COMPL
	"The lake is blue."

The complement _fai_ means "heavenly", and reinforces the adjective
_firat_. So one may understand this statement to say "the lake is a
heavenly blue".

The point is that there are many different complements, and each verb
and each adjective has its own set of possible complements (each set
may be just 1 or more).

More examples:

	diru kei     hamra huu na  aram.
	girl ORG:FEM see   1sp RCP COMPL
	"I see the girl", or "The girl was seen by me".

The complement _aram_ means "to be seen". It is synonymous with the
verb. Some complements may be used by more than one verb/adjective.
For example, _fai_ also occurs with the verb _tuharas_:

	buara   ka  tuharas         fai.
	volcano ORG erupt_violently COMPL
	"The volcano erupts violently."

This may also be translated as "the volcano erupts violently to the
heavens", since _fai_ means "heavenly" or "to the heavens".

Some verbs may have more than one possible complement. For example:

	kiran     sa  tapa itsan       ko  ta'an.
	young_man CVY walk cinder_cone ORG COMPL
	"The young man walks down to the bottom of the cinder cone."

The complement _ta'an_ means "reaching the ground", and so when put
together with _tapa_, it implies not merely a walk away from the
cinder cone, but specifically a walk to the bottom. Similarly, one may
say:

	kiran     sa  tapa itsan       no  anan.
	young_man CVY walk cinder_cone RCP COMPL
	"The young man walks to the top of the cinder cone."

The complement _anan_ means "reaching to the top".

It is tempting to think that complements are merely obligatory
adverbs. However, "real" adverbs follow the verb, and do not occur at
the end of a sentence. For example:

	kiran     ka  tsana titi       tsaritas so  aniin.
	young_man ORG speak repeatedly monkey   CVY COMPL
	"The young man speaks repeatedly about the monkey."

The adverb _titi_ means "profusely" or "repeatedly". It seems to be
quite independent of the complement _aniin_, which is synonymous with
the verb _tsana_.

	bunari sei     tapa umai  buta' nei     bata.
	woman  CVY:FEM walk again house RCP:FEM COMPL
	"The woman walked back to (her) house."

The adverb _umai_ means "again" or "turning back". Again, it seems to
be independent of the complement _bata_, which we have seen is
synonymous to the verb _tapa_.

Anyhow, I hope this is clear. :-) If anyone knows of any natlang that
has a feature similar to Tatari Faran's complements, I'd be happy to
know.


T

--
Elegant or ugly code as well as fine or rude sentences have something in
common: they don't depend on the language. -- Luca De Vitis

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