Re: Syllabic consonants (was: Re: Beek)

>This is really quite interesting from a linguistic perspective, because
>one generally expects liquids to be preferentially syllabic, rather than
>nasals. I, for one, find [tov.lm=] very difficult to pronounce, as it
>always wants to come out [to.vl=m].
Oh, no.  I must have given the wrong impression (again.)  Or mistyped
something (yet again.) <tovlm> *is* supposed to be pronounced [to.vl=m] the
second syllable is [vl=m].  It's the only reasonable way that I can
pronounce it either.  Sorry about the confusion.

>  Likewise, I want [ka.rm=] to be
>[ka.r=m]. This is linguistically expected, since liquids are usually more
>sonorous than nasals.
I think I must not have been clear on <karm> either.  The /r/ and the /m/
do not occur in the same syllable.  (There is a phonotactic constraint
against such a cluster occurring in the same syllable.)  <karm> is
[kar.m=]  Though when I pronounce it, half the time it is coming out a lot
like [kar:m:], which is not quite how I want it to sound.  (Of course, I
also have to work hard not to insert an epenthetic schwa when I'm
pronouncing a syllabic consonant in this language.  I have a heavy
accent.  And I think that I'm going to end up pronouncing all 3 of my
conlangs with a rather heavy accent.  I've always been quite good at
getting an accent right by imitation, but here I have nothing to imitate -
I have to pronounce from phonological knowledge.  In natural language
acquisition I acquire phonological knowledge from hearing
pronounciation.  They're exactly opposite.)

>Such inversions aren't unheard of, though. PIE contains stems like *wlkw-,
>theoretically pronounced [wl=k_w], rather than the expected [ulk_w].
Yeah, Cwendaso would probably opt for the syllabic /l/ under such
circumstances.  (But you'd never see a stem quite like that one in
Cwendaso; it's Trehelish that has the overabundance of labialized
consonants, and foreigners usually pronounce them as Cw before vowels and
get quite flustered when they occur at the end of words or before other
consonants.  In those positions, they may end up pronouncing them as Cu,
which doesn't sound so good to Trehelish ears.)

I hadn't realized that PIE had labialized stops.

>Unlike Teoh, I find it pleasant and natural to have /m/ alternate between
>syllabic and non-syllabic forms.
Well, that's encouraging to hear.  I, personally, am having some difficulty
in switching it from syllabic to consonantal in <mta> when I add emi-.  I
keep wanting to leave it syllabic.  On the theories that I am working with
now, <emimta> should be [e.mim.ta] and *not* [e.mi.m.ta], which is what I
keep trying to do.  It does seem natural for me to switch it from syllabic
to consonantal when it is syllabic at the end of a word, but I'm having
trouble doing the same thing when I have a syllabic at the beginning of a word.

Isidora