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Digest of messages 36.53-36.58 (fwd)

From:John Cowan <cowan@...>
Date:Tuesday, August 1, 2000, 13:38
I thought this would be of interest to Conlangites.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 23:25:31 -0700
From: Mike Cleven <ironmtn@...>
Reply-To: Tolkien Language List <tolklang@...>
Subject: Re: Digest of messages 36.53-36.58

re following x-post from CHINOOK listserve

I'm a lurker on Tolklang via the weekly digest, and follow it when I
can; the best Elvish I can muster is rough Sindarin but I'm impressed by
y'all who cam hold forth in Quenya; would kinda like to learn Dwarvish
but there aren't significant resources for that, are there?

Knowing you all to be Tolkienites (what else?), thought you might find
interesting the following xpost interesting; my try at translating the
Song of the One Ring into the Chinook Jargon, which I wrote in response
to a Lithuanian scholar's rendition of Jabberwocky into the Jargon.
Don't know if any of you know the Jargon but... aw, what the heck.  Here

Because the movie's in production, and because the words have been
fluttering in my head the last week or two:

Klone kweokweo kopa tsiltsil tillicums hyas tyee, yukwa kukwelee kopa
saghalie illahee
Sinamoxt kopa tenas tillicums tyee, kopa stone house yakas
Kwaist kopa mans, klaska skookum kumtux memaloose, yaka chako memaloose
Ikt kopa klale tyee, kopa klale hyas lashase yaka
kopa Mordor illahee kah mitlite hyas polaklie

Ikt kweokweo kopa mamook law kopa konaway klaska
Ikt kweokweo kopa mamook klap kopa konaway klaska
Ikt kweokweo kopa chako iskum konaway,
    pe kopa polaklie mamook konaway hyas kow
kopa Mordor illahee kah mitlite hyas polaklie

[for those who've never read Tolkien, the English translation of the
Dark Tongue's original is:

Song of The Ring

Three rings for the elven kings under the sky
Seven for the dwarf lords in their halls of stone
Nine for mortal men doomed to die
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
in the land of Mordor where the shadows lie

One ring to rule them all, one ring to to find them
One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
in the land of Mordor where the shadows lie


for tolklang, the actual direct word-by-word of my Chinook is

Three ring(s) to star people high chief(s), here below from high country
Seven to little people chief(s), in stone house theirs
Nine for men, they can know death, they come to death one day
One for the black chief, on black great chair his
in Mordor country where is great darkness

One ring for make law over all them
One ring for make find to all them
One ring for come take all (chako iskum = become owned),
    and in darkness make all great tied/bound
in Mordor country where is great darkness

What's the literal translation of the Dark Tongue anyway...."Ash nazg
durbatuluk, etc."?

Regards from the Uttermost West (British Columbia)

Mike Cleven

John Cowan                         
C'est la` pourtant que se livre le sens du dire, de ce que, s'y conjuguant
le nyania qui bruit des sexes en compagnie, il supplee a ce qu'entre eux,
de rapport nyait pas.               -- Jacques Lacan, "L'Etourdit"