Re: YADPT (D=Dutch)
| From: | Jan van Steenbergen <ijzeren_jan@...> |
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| Date: | Tuesday, November 4, 2003, 14:33 |
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--- Tristan McLeay skrzypszy:
>(My questions will probably be relative to the speech of 70-y.o.
>Zeelanders, but general responses are fine if they're interesting or you
>can't talk about 70-y.o. Zeelanders :)
Hehe, I guess I can't help you in Zeelandish dialect matters... I'm afraid
my knowledge remains limited to Standard Dutch (ABN) and some Westfries and
Amstredams only.
>What is the Dutch word for Cassowary? (Oma doesn't know and Harrie and
>Mien don't speak English.)
No idea! The thing is, I have not a clue what a cassowary is... I just
checked in my electronic dictionary here at work, and the word isn't
there... :(
>There is a word for young girl pronounced sort of like [meiS@]. It might
>be a dialect word, I'm not sure. How is it spelt?
"meisje". And it is not a dialect word; it is the normal word for "girl".
>How is the word for uncle spelt?
"oom" [o:m]
>Is <ij> pronounced /&i/ (at least in Zeelands)? It sounds that way to me.
>Seems kinda funny :) (I think some mention of this was made on the list a
>while ago by Irina Rempt.)
Normally, I would say [Ej]. However, this is one of those diphthongs that
strongly tend to differ regionally [E:, e, Aj, Oj, etc.]. I'm not sure
about the pronunciation in Zeeland.
>Is _Hollands_ the standard Dutch word for 'Dutch'? or perculiar to some
>dialects?
Neither of those. The standard Dutch word for "Dutch" is "Nederlands".
There is nothing like a "Hollands" language or dialect, although sometimes
speakers of peripherical dialects like Limburgs or Gronings call
Dutch "Hollands" to stress their own separateness.
>Is _Holland_ the usual word for the Netherlands (or used at
>all)? How come Holland isn't supposed to be used in English then?
No. We call it "Nederland" and nothing else. "Holland" is the historical
name of a region in the west, now divided between the provinces Noord- and
Zuid-Holland. I would rather call it strange that so many foreign languages
call us "Holland" and "Hollanders" instead of "Nederland"
and "Nederlanders", which is probably the result of the province Holland's
dominant position in the past. I should add that many languages also have
some equivalent of "the Low Countries", which is basically what "Nederland"
means.
>Are <ie> and <i> pronounced the same (i.e. as [I])?
No. <ie> is always [i], and [i] is always [I].
>Is <ee> something like /i:/ or something like /e:/ or are my ears entirely
>deceiving me? When Mum said 'Zeeland', it very definitely sounded like the
>latter, but otherwise it's closer to the former (or at least, closer to
>English <ee> which is, admittedly and for me, a diphthong).
<ee> is always pronounced [e] or [e:]. Only before <r> is sounds more like
[I:]. So, "Zeeland" sounds like [ze:lAnt].
>Is <w> /v/? I thought it was supposed to be something different, but I
>can't hear the difference between it and (either Dutch or English) <v>.
At risk of getting into a renewed discussion with Christophe about this
matter, I'd venture [v]. After <u> (especially in word-final positions,
like "lauw", "nieuw", etc.) it is pronounced [w].
>Which reminds me, are both /i grek/ and /gri:k ei/ (with very rough
>pronunciations, my apologies) names for <Y>?
"Y grecque" (sp?) [i'grEk] and "Griekse ij" ['xriks@ ej] are completely
equivalent.
>(For the record, they're all using an alveolar sound for the r, I think a
>tap or flap but it could be a trill.
I my opinion (but I should hasten to add that I'm quite conservative in
such matters) an alveolar trill is preferable. Many alternative
pronunciations exist and are used, depending on both region, social class,
and age.
>Another funny thing is that the only word in Harrie (almost wrote
>'Hurry'*) and Mien's emails that needed non-ASCII characters so far has
>been _Australië_ :) (They seemed happy enough to type ij in as two
>letters.)
Dutch typewriters used to have a separate key for "ij" as one character (on
the positions where an American keyboard has ";", i.e. under the right
pink). However, since computers got into use, people tend to write "ij" as
two separate letters. Especially since we usually work with American
keyboard layouts.
>Tanke val (?),
Not correct, but very inspiring. Perhaps an idea for Føtisk?
You should have written "bedankt", "hartelijk dank", or someting similar.
By the way, you're welcome anyway! ;))
Jan
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