Re: rhotics (was Hellenish oddities)

On Thu, 30 Nov 2000, Dan Sulani wrote:

> >I tried it as described and I ended up hissing or choking on my tongue.
> >So far trying to prolong the Korean [r] or the repeated [d] that my
> >friend suggested have gotten me closest.  It may well be that different
> >methods work for different people...?
>
>     Have you tried what I recommended in my post
> from 23 Nov? Namely, stick out your tongue,
> _loosely_ close your lips around it, then pull it in and up
> quickly past the [t] position on the way to the retroflex  r.
> At the same time, blow outward.
Dan, I must have missed your original post (hardly surprising, given how
much email I delete) but I tried that and it's starting to work.

>     I know that blowing _out_ while pulling _in_ is not
> an easy coordination, but if the tongue is relaxed enough,
> the resulting "whiplash" of the tongue tip should cause it
> to flap enough to trill. Adding voicing during this process
> should result in a trilled apical r.
<wry g>  Well, I sound like an idiot when I'm practicing, but I'm getting
there.  :-)  I still find the tap easier, but hey.

[snip]
>     After getting used to how a "flapping" tongue tip feels,
> one can do it without having to pull in the tongue from outside.
>     This method has worked for many of my speech therapy clients.
When I'm reading at home and see a word with an "r" in it I've taken to
wriggling my tongue tip trying to see it with the trill.  :-)

One of my housemates finds it really irritating that I can't just hear
the thing and produce it, but a) he's a vocalist and has been trained to
do so and b) he spent a good portion of his life in Argentina, and speaks
Spanish.  I'm not a vocalist, I'm just a Yoon Ha and I have to learn it
the long way.  :-p

YHL