Re: rhotics (was Hellenish oddities)

On 30 Nov, Yoon Ha Lee wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Nov 2000, Irina Rempt wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, BP Jonsson wrote:
>>
>> > Try placing the tounge rather relaxed in position for [t] and then
force a
>> > stream of air through.  This will produce a voiceless trill.
>>
>> Nope. When I do that I get /s/ (voiceless alveolar fricative) or /l-/
>> (voiceless alveolar lateral fricative).
>
>I tried it as described and I ended up hissing or choking on my tongue.
>So far trying to prolong the Korean [r] or the repeated [d] that my
>friend suggested have gotten me closest.  It may well be that different
>methods work for different people...?
    Have you tried what I recommended in my post
from 23 Nov? Namely, stick out your tongue,
_loosely_ close your lips around it, then pull it in and up
quickly past the [t] position on the way to the retroflex  r.
At the same time, blow outward.
    I know that blowing _out_ while pulling _in_ is not
an easy coordination, but if the tongue is relaxed enough,
the resulting "whiplash" of the tongue tip should cause it
to flap enough to trill. Adding voicing during this process
should result in a trilled apical r.
    (Although, I must admit that sometimes I have had success teaching
the apical trill via [tr] or [dr], starting from a [t] position might not
 exaggerate the process enough for people who are not used to
 making sounds with a loose tongue tip, hence the resulting /s/,
hissing, and choking mentioned above, and thus my suggestion
 to start the movement further out.)
    After getting used to how a "flapping" tongue tip feels,
one can do it without having to pull in the tongue from outside.
    This method has worked for many of my speech therapy clients.

Dan Sulani

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