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Re: Terkunan > Trekunan?

From:Benct Philip Jonsson <melroch@...>
Date:Tuesday, May 6, 2008, 16:54
2008/5/6 Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>:

> Now, I am thinking about doing more shifts to 'r', namely > to define that r+consonant is not tolerated by phonology, > some time after the l>r shifts, so a resolving strategy > has to be invented. My current idea is to let metathesis > with the previous vowel happend when stop + r is the > result or r becomes word-initial: > >| gardin > gradin 'garden' >| eternitat > etrenitat 'eternity' >| Gran Karle > Gran Kral 'Charlemagne' >| parle > pral 'to talk' >| portu > protu 'habour' >| karkin > krakin 'lime' >| arbul > rabul 'tree' >| urtime > rutime 'last, ultimate' >| ornali > ronali 'ordinary' > > This happens in Sardinian (and in the Sardinian dialect > of Catalan).
I say go for it!
> In all other cases, rC could be resolved by echoing the > previous vowel. This is no problem if the echoed vowel is > not stressed: > >| mer'kat > mere'kat 'market' >| vur'kan > vuru'kan 'volcano' > > In other cases, stress, which is currently totally > regular, might trigger a problem: > > 'serve > ?se'reve 'to serve'
I say what's wrong with non-stop + r? Especially in a lang which has many other freak initial clusters. You might insert stops or turn v > b to get more conformant clusters: _mbrekat, brukan, screve/streve_. FERVERE could certainly become _freve_ as _fr_ would occur otherwise anyway.
> In these cases, we might need another resolving strategy > (e.g., drop of 'r' or 'v' in the above case). I do not > want to introduce (unstressed) schwas.
What about having rC > Cr in such cases: _mekrat, vukran, sevre/sebre_. This might even be the preferred strategy, or CVRC > CrVC *or* > CVCR in cases where both are possible.
> Maybe rC is only forbidden in unstressed syllables
That doesn't strike me as realistic, nor as cool (parse that sentence, all who dare! Both senses intended!)
> : of the above examples, > 'portu', 'parle', 'Karle' would remain unchanged in this > case, and maybe 'eternitat', too, because it is a > compound 'etern'+'itat'.
No no, _protu, prale, Krale, etrenitat_ are *way* too cool. BTW wouldn't _protu, prale, Krale_ lose their final vowels?
> This is a bit like Modern Dutch's 'kerruk' for 'kerk' and > 'melluk' for 'melk' and 'errug' for 'erg'
So pedestrian (and happening in young females' Swedish ATM: _ett, tuvå, turé; kulara, starruka färrejer_). This kind of drawl isn't half as appealing as metathesis, IMHO. T*kunan has a 'snappiness' which you shouldn't give up.
> (only a schwa is inserted here, and the l is involved > too, which might also be thinkable in Terkunan). Words > with lC in Terkunan include: > > kalde 'warm' Alman 'German'
Why not _krad(e), Laman/Amlan_?
> > I had experimented with l > r here already, but decided > that it only happens before stop or voiceless consonants > (IIRC). > > Another problem is that I don't what to rename Terkunan > to Trekunan, so I might need some exceptions, or simply > define that Modern Terkunan does not have such a > constraint in r.
Or that the metathesis precedes syncope in *TERRACONA.
> There are some open questions, e.g. what to do in > compounds: > > vir 'true' + tat > ?viritat / ?virtat (currently: > virtat) mfril 'inferior' + tat > ?? (currently: > mfriltat) sul 'alone' + mentu > ?? (currently: > sulmentu)
I would definitely treat old compounds (which existed already in Latin) the same as non-compounds. 'inferior' + tat is a special kind of problem. I'd expect _mfritrat_ or _mfrilitat_, though a "syncope is special" rule would result in _mfriltat_.
> The endings are actually -itat and -amentu, but -i-/-a- > is (currently) dropped after vowel, r, and l. > > > So does this add a nice touch to the language?
> Does this look plausible?
Yes. An exception for stressed syllables only is not very plausible however. Metathesis and epenthesis are both plausible but epenthesis is far less nice! I like many of the examples above, but I
> would like to hear your opinion, so what do you think?
Go go go!
> And how do you think to resolve the open issues?
Definitely a rule which makes exception for cases of syncope, i.e. metathesis precedes syncope. This might leave late additions like _Karle, Alman_ untouched too (_Alman_ would be left alone anyway, since it is < _Aleman_). _Kral_ might be a jocular form of _Karle_, like a comedic character or something.
> **Henrik >
/Bendetx, author of the Romance freaklang which would be parodied as "ayauhauhayau"! :-)


Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>