Re: Terkunan > Trekunan?
|From:||Benct Philip Jonsson <melroch@...>|
|Date:||Tuesday, May 6, 2008, 16:54|
2008/5/6 Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>:
> Now, I am thinking about doing more shifts to 'r', namely
> to define that r+consonant is not tolerated by phonology,
> some time after the l>r shifts, so a resolving strategy
> has to be invented. My current idea is to let metathesis
> with the previous vowel happend when stop + r is the
> result or r becomes word-initial:
>| gardin > gradin 'garden'
>| eternitat > etrenitat 'eternity'
>| Gran Karle > Gran Kral 'Charlemagne'
>| parle > pral 'to talk'
>| portu > protu 'habour'
>| karkin > krakin 'lime'
>| arbul > rabul 'tree'
>| urtime > rutime 'last, ultimate'
>| ornali > ronali 'ordinary'
> This happens in Sardinian (and in the Sardinian dialect
> of Catalan).
I say go for it!
> In all other cases, rC could be resolved by echoing the
> previous vowel. This is no problem if the echoed vowel is
> not stressed:
>| mer'kat > mere'kat 'market'
>| vur'kan > vuru'kan 'volcano'
> In other cases, stress, which is currently totally
> regular, might trigger a problem:
> 'serve > ?se'reve 'to serve'
I say what's wrong with non-stop + r? Especially in a lang
which has many other freak initial clusters. You might
insert stops or turn v > b to get more conformant clusters:
_mbrekat, brukan, screve/streve_. FERVERE could certainly
become _freve_ as _fr_ would occur otherwise anyway.
> In these cases, we might need another resolving strategy
> (e.g., drop of 'r' or 'v' in the above case). I do not
> want to introduce (unstressed) schwas.
What about having rC > Cr in such cases: _mekrat, vukran,
sevre/sebre_. This might even be the preferred strategy, or
CVRC > CrVC *or* > CVCR in cases where both are possible.
> Maybe rC is only forbidden in unstressed syllables
That doesn't strike me as realistic, nor as cool (parse that
sentence, all who dare! Both senses intended!)
> : of the above examples,
> 'portu', 'parle', 'Karle' would remain unchanged in this
> case, and maybe 'eternitat', too, because it is a
> compound 'etern'+'itat'.
No no, _protu, prale, Krale, etrenitat_ are *way* too cool.
BTW wouldn't _protu, prale, Krale_ lose their final vowels?
> This is a bit like Modern Dutch's 'kerruk' for 'kerk' and
> 'melluk' for 'melk' and 'errug' for 'erg'
So pedestrian (and happening in young females' Swedish ATM:
_ett, tuvå, turé; kulara, starruka färrejer_). This kind
of drawl isn't half as appealing as metathesis, IMHO.
T*kunan has a 'snappiness' which you shouldn't give up.
> (only a schwa is inserted here, and the l is involved
> too, which might also be thinkable in Terkunan). Words
> with lC in Terkunan include:
> kalde 'warm' Alman 'German'
Why not _krad(e), Laman/Amlan_?
> I had experimented with l > r here already, but decided
> that it only happens before stop or voiceless consonants
> Another problem is that I don't what to rename Terkunan
> to Trekunan, so I might need some exceptions, or simply
> define that Modern Terkunan does not have such a
> constraint in r.
Or that the metathesis precedes syncope in *TERRACONA.
> There are some open questions, e.g. what to do in
> vir 'true' + tat > ?viritat / ?virtat (currently:
> virtat) mfril 'inferior' + tat > ?? (currently:
> mfriltat) sul 'alone' + mentu > ?? (currently:
I would definitely treat old compounds (which existed
already in Latin) the same as non-compounds. 'inferior' +
tat is a special kind of problem. I'd expect _mfritrat_ or
_mfrilitat_, though a "syncope is special" rule would result
> The endings are actually -itat and -amentu, but -i-/-a-
> is (currently) dropped after vowel, r, and l.
> So does this add a nice touch to the language?
> Does this look plausible?
Yes. An exception for stressed syllables only is not very
plausible however. Metathesis and epenthesis are both
plausible but epenthesis is far less nice!
I like many of the examples above, but I
> would like to hear your opinion, so what do you think?
Go go go!
> And how do you think to resolve the open issues?
Definitely a rule which makes exception for cases of
syncope, i.e. metathesis precedes syncope. This might leave
late additions like _Karle, Alman_ untouched too (_Alman_
would be left alone anyway, since it is < _Aleman_).
_Kral_ might be a jocular form of _Karle_, like a
comedic character or something.
/Bendetx, author of the Romance freaklang which would be
parodied as "ayauhauhayau"! :-)