Re: congrammar update

Lassailly wrote:
>    Seems to me Indo. uses intonation to disambiguate things like this:
>dokter áli can be either Dr. Ali or Ali's doctor, but dókter, áli would
only
>be the emphatic of áli dókter 'Ali is a doctor'  (Kash has a verb 'to be',
>but like adalah, it's not often used except in writing where precision
might
>be necessary.)
>-------------
>ah? i admit i've never noticed that.
>but i've often been told that french ears are pitch&stress-deaf.
    Peut-etre.....but American students also found it difficult, and spent a
lot of time listening to the tapes and/or the Indo. teacher, even though
English has some close analogues to Indo. intonation patterns ("comma
intonation", serial/listing counting), and I suspect French does, too.  At
least, intonation was dealt with!  When I learned Spanish, in the dark ages
before tapes, and from an American teacher, intonation wasn't mentioned.


>-------------
>        Mmm, no I don't think so.  /re/ is the invariant relative clause
>marker and technically plays no role in the rel.clause; so:  ... the man
who
>saw me ...kash re mam (me) ya/tikas (he-saw);  ...the man (whom) I saw
>...kash re yan (him) ma/tikas (I-saw)....  the man to whom I gave the money
>...kash re ne (to him) ma/wele toye.  The closest equivalent is sort of
>tangled-up English, when we say "...the man which I gave him the money".
>-------------
>i see. so Kash uses the 3rd person to refer to the head noun
>of the subclause like in "very bad" french:
>
>"l'homme qu'il me voit"
>kash re mam yatikas
>neju i-n kite sana
>(btw, why "mam" rather than "man"?)
    OOPS. yes:  _man_
>
>"l'homme que je le vois"
>kash re yan matikas
>neju i sana kite-n
>
>"l'homme que je lui donne l'argent"
>kash re ne mawele toye
>neju i sana tuke moni tai-n
>
>i like very much this way of saying things.
>but i wanted to make a difference in tunu between 3rd person and topic.
>i guess in kash it's not necessary thanks to personal and case affixes:
>
>"the man to whom he gives money"
>kash re ne yawele toye
>
>"the man who gives money to him"
>kash re yawele toye ne
>(i made up "ne" but i guess it may be "ye" or "ñe" too-- i like ñe better
>actually).
    Close; but O/IO pronouns go before the verb, as in Romance. So this
sentence would be identical to the preceding one, and potentially ambiguous.
Context to the rescue? or back to the drawing board..........The problem of
two 3d pers. pronouns has come up on the list before, but I haven't really
addressed it-- as I see you have---
>
>but in tunu i kind of need "n" because natural word order is TSVOiO with
>almost no possible permutation like kash "to-him he-give money". hence:
>
>neju i sini tuke moni tai-n
>man who he give money to-him
>"-n" refers to head noun "man" while "sini" ("he/she/it") refers to someone
>else.
>("tai" is like "kepada")
>
>neju i-n tuke moni tai sini
>man who-he give money to him
>i like how Kash sounds.
>i suggest we make an IndoPacific & Austric Conlang Club with Saalangal,
>Boreanesian, etc.
>like there is a Celtic one already :-)
    Nice idea; but bear in mind Kash is only "Indo. inspired" and comes from
another planet.....
>btw, what is the plural of "kash"? "kash-kash"?
    Nope:  kashila.  The declension of nouns is as follows:
Animate:  Sing. Nom. ---, Gen. -i, Dat. -e, Acc. -(V)n
                Plur.  -(i)la,    -(i)li,    -(i)le,  -(i)lan
Inanimate:  Sing. Nom, Acc. --- , Gen, Dat. same as anim.
                Plus. Nom, Acc. -(V)sh, Gen. -(V)shi, Dat. -(V)she
Pronouns are similar but a little irregular.

>and how does kash handle TMA ? are they mostly auxiliaries like in
indonesian?>

Tense:  Pres. bare stem, Past add -sa, Fut. add -to (omitted in colloq.
speech).  Perfect:  mende 'finish(ed)':  mende yawele 'he has given'; forms
like mende yawele(-sa, -to) 'he had/will have  given' are possible but used
only when it's absolutely necessary to keep the time-sequence clear (so
mostly in writing).  Most other M/A use auxiliaries.
There are up to 5 possible derivative forms for verbs/adj.:  Stative (stem)
e.g. fasan ' X (is) hot', Inchoative yu/fasan 'X (is) heating, getting hot',
Causative (rum-) rupasan '(someone) is heating X'; Potential po/fasan in
this case 'heatable', but in others '...can heat X'; not predictable, and
there are ways to clarify the distinction. Accidental (often semantically
divergent, usually unpleasant/unwanted) caka/fasan 'overcome by heat, suffer
a heat-stroke'

>what's Kash url again?
    Kasihan, belum ada.  Sorry, not yet.