Re: conlangs as art (was: Re: Wikipedia:Verifiability - Mailing lists as sources

For me, while I was not unmoved by Quenya, it was Sindarin which had
the wow effect. One may speculate whether a knowledge of Welsh or a
lack thereof may influence one's appreciation of Sindarin, and at
least one conlanger is on record as perceiving Quenya as a travesty of
his native Italian, but I think it has most of all to do with what
Tolkien called Lámatyáve 'sound-taste'. I generally like words ending
in consonants and short words over long words and vocalic endings,
monosyllabic and jambic rythms over trochaic and dactylic rythms.
Which doesn't mean that I'm not moved by the Odyssey, or that I
dislike Latin, Greek or Italian, but I love Old Norse and Old English!
These are matters of taste, and as such should not be disputed, but
Lámatyáve is an interesting subject when it comes to meta-discussion
of conlanging, since clearly conlangers have tastes concerning all
levels of linguistic structure.

2008/2/27, R A Brown <ray@...>:
> Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> > Hallo!
> >
> > On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:50:01 +0000, And Rosta wrote:
> >
> >> I can say, truthfully & without hyperbole, that I have been saying on
> this
> >> list longer than anyone that conlangs can be art. Nevertheless I am also
> >> convinced that as an artistic medium conlanging does not lend itself to
> the
> >> creation of great art that, say, exalts us, or moves us deeply, or gives
> us
> >> profound insights into life.
> >
> > Why not?  Where is the problem?  Why cannot be that a conlang moves
> > someone deeply?
>
> Why not indeed?
>
> I remember very many moons ago (about 50 years ago, in fact), being
> deeply moved when I read Galadriel's song "Ai! laurië lantar lassi
> surinen!..." in 'Farewell to Lórien'. It had the wow-factor! I found it
> stunningly beautiful and moving.
>
> I know beauty is only in the eye of the beholder (or ear of the
> listener) - but I was deeply moved by the words - and, indeed, still am.
>
> > A conlang can express the thoughts and feelings of
> > its author as much as, for instance, a piece of music can do.  That,
> > at least, is my opinion; for instance, I find Quenya and Sindarin
> > very expressive of Tolkien's mindset.
>
> Yes, they probably do. But I must confess, I have never been
> particularly moved by Sindarin - but Quenya, wow!!
> ---------------------------
>
> David J. Peterson wrote:
> [snip]
>  > Aside from that, I'm tired of this discussion.  It's all about
> definitions,
>  > and if two people don't share a definition, and are not willing to
>  > agree on a common definition, then it amounts to nothing more
>  > than name-calling.
>
> I'm inclined to agree - and it's pushing up the number of mails from the
> list which is OK if one has the leisure to read them all properly - but
> today, I was just skimming through most.
>
> I know, for example, not everyone shares my view of Quenya. Nor do I
> expect them to. We have moved in very subjective areas in this thread
> and I feel David's assessment is true.
>
> --
> Ray
> ==================================
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com
> ==================================
> Frustra fit per plura quod potest
> fieri per pauciora.
> [William of Ockham]
>

--
/ BP