Re: of cakes and men -- doraya syntax

On Tue, 9 Nov 1999, Adam Parrish wrote:

>      1) tyepylen kos rian.
>         eat.perf person cake
>         A person ate a cake. (no topic -- no given information)
This argues for a basic VSO structure.

>
>      2) kos tyepylen tai rian.
>         person eat.perf 3ps cake
>         The person ate a cake. (person = topic, given information)
>
With, like Christophe said, a topic-comment construction.

>      3) tyepylen kos sae.
>         eat.perf person 3pn
>         A person ate it. (it = old information)
Not really different from 1.

>      4) kos tasa tyepylen.
>         person 3ps.3pn eat.perf
>         The person ate it. (person & it = old information, person = topic)
>
>      5) rianui tasa tyepylen.
>         cake.TOP 3ps.3pn eat.perf
>         He ate the cake. (he & it = old information, cake = topic)
>
These two seem strange. I would guess that if both S and O
are represented by a pronoun, that in those cases the verb
follows the pronoun(s) - but that seems very strange to me.

>      6) rianui tyepylen kos sae.
>         cake.TOP eat.perf person 3pn
>         A person ate the cake. (cake = topic, old information)
>
Not really different from 2 - for a moment I suspected some
animacy issue, but that doesn't seem to be present.

>      7) tai tyepylen rian
>         3ps eat.perf cake
>         He ate a cake. (he = topic, old information)
>
>      8) rianui tyepylen kakos sae?
>         cake.TOP perf.eat which-person it
>         Who finished the cake? (cake = topic, old information)
>
These two are quite clear, too, though I'm quite surprised that there
is no marker on the verb in 7), since looks like a verbal argument is
missing there - I would have expected another tai. Yes, 7) might demand
further study.

>      9) kakos tyepylen tai rian?
>         which-person perf.eat 3ps cake
>         Who finished a cake? (person = topic, old information)
>
This one is interesting because, in my experience, interrogative
pronouns are seldom topics - a topic is what the sentence about,
and in this case you're admitting you don't know what it is about.
I wonder whether 9) is really correct - perhaps the result of a
too enthousiastic elicitation session?


>     10) kos rianui tasa tyepylen.
>         person cake.TOP 3ps.3pn eat.perf
>         The person ate the cake. (?)
>
As for 10), I really do think your informant was getting tired.
Or perhaps it could be analyzed as two sentences:

kos.   rianui tasa    tyepylen
person cake   3ps.3ps eat.perf
There was this person. As for the cake, he ate it.

No, that doesn't follow - it should be _kos. rianui tyepylen tasa_,
I guess. Perhaps a sentence-final verb has a distinct meaning which
is not present in the glosses?  Based on 4, 5 and 10 I would begin
to suspect it. Of course, without context, it would be difficult
to determine the meaning.

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://denden.conlang.org/~bsarempt