Re: Grace, Theotokos (was: Ave Maria)

At 1:45 pm -0400 29/6/00, Vasiliy Chernov wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:04:14 -0400, John Cowan <jcowan@...>
>wrote:
>
>>Vasiliy Chernov wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think
>>> 'Grace' would be the proper translation, linguistically (but
>>> I can't speak for theological uses).
>>
>>"Grace" is indeed the standard translation in theological uses.
>
>Translation of what? It would be easier if you could point to the
>Greek equivalent.
XAPIC, genL XAPITOC  (kharis, kharitos) = grace (= 'free & underserved
favor, gift, help [that God gives us to respond to his call to be partakers
of the diven nature & of eternal life]) - the theological meaning is much
developed in the writings of St Paul.

But the word translated into Latin as 'gratia plena' is:
KEXAPIT‡MENH   (kekharitwmenh [w = omega; h = eta])

Catholics and, it clearly from the prayers quoted so far, Orthodox take the
stem in this participle, i.e. -XAPIT- to have the technical 'theological'
sense of 'kharis' = grace. So the traditional translation "full of grace"
(thus confirming the belief in Mary's sinlessness).

Protestant translators have generally taken -XARIT- here in it's common,
everyday "pre-theological: Greek meaning of 'favor', 'thanks', and
translate the participle as 'highly favored' or some similar phrase.

[...]
>>
>>As for "Theotokos" = "Mother of God", the fact that there is no
>>Western equivalent
I rarely find myself disagreeing with John, but I this I disagree orofoundly.

But there *is*.  The Latin strict Latin equivalent, so to speak, is 'Deipara'.

Admittedly that hardly occurs in any liturgy, prayers etc.  But 'Dei
Genetrix' is common enough, and if that is not an equivalent of 'Theotokos'
it's difficult to see what is!

>>of this does not reflect a difference in doctrine,
>>only a reluctance in the Latin Church to *call* the Second Person
>>"God" without further modification.  So although Jesus is God, and
>>Mary is the mother of Jesus, it is uncustomary (not incorrect) to
>>call her the mother of God.
On the contrary, it's very customary in Catholic circles. After all, in the
most popular prayer of all to Mary - the Ave Maria - she is invoked as
"Sancta Maria, Mater Dei..." - "Holy Mary, Mother of God..."

A pretty explicit statement, it seems to me.

And the Eucharistic Prayer said daily at Mass is pretty explicit.  OK - the
1st Eucharistic Prayer has "we honor Mary, the ever-virgin mother of Jesus
Christ our Lord & God" which, I guess, counts as John's "further
modification" - but:
- the 2nd Eucharistic Prayer has:"make us worthy to share eternal life with
Mary, the virgin Mother of God, with the Apostles and with all the saints.."
- the 3rd Eucharistic Prayer has: "enable us to share in the inheritance of
your saints, with Mary, the virgin Mother of God, with the apostles, the
martyrs and all your saints...."
- the 4th Eucharistic Prayer has: "...grant also to us, your children, to
enter into our heavenly inheritance in the company of the Virgin Mary, the
Mother of God, and with your apostles & saints."

There is no further modification in the 2nd, 3rd & 4th alternatives - Mary
is unequivocably called "Mother of God".   When, many years ago, I was
being instructed in the faith before my reception in to the Church, I was
told that "Mother of God" was the greatest of all Mary's titles and that
all the rest followed from it.

Ray.


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A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]
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