Re: Examples wanted: How do you say this?

caeruleancentaur wrote:
>
> Ray Brown  wrote:
>
> >Example:
> >eo     imperium  tenente,               euentum timeo
> >he-ABL power-ACC hold-PRES.PART-ABL
> >With him holding power, I fear the outcome
>
> >There was, however, no present participle for "to be" in Classical
> >Latin, so the two nouns were just put in the ablative, for example:
> >  Caesare   duce,    nihil timebimus.
> >Caesar-ABL leader-ABL
> >With Caesar being leader, we shall fear nothing.
>
> I notice that, in the two examples you give, the topic of the
> absolute construction is not the same as the subject of the main
> clause.  Is it correct to say that this is the rule with absolute
> constructions?  Thus, one couldn't say: With me holding power, I fear
> the outcome, or With Caesar being leader, he shall fear nothing.
>
> Have I understood this correctly?
This is certainly true for Classical Latin. The topic of the absolute
cannot refer to the subject or object of the main clause.

Eum imperium tenentem timeo.
he-ACC power-ACC hold-PRES.PART-ACC fear-PRES-1SG
With him holding power, I fear him.

No ablative absolute because "him" is the object of "timeo."

Note that the examples at http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/001.html
follow this rule, while the ones at
http://linguistlist.org/~ask-ling/archive-1999.4/msg00552.html
do not.

Dr Schaufele is a professional linguist; I am not. But to me, only the
examples at Bartleby's are absolute constructions. The examples
given by Dr. Schaufele are simply participial phrases.

--Ph. D.