Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: Examples wanted: How do you say this?

From:Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>
Date:Monday, April 18, 2005, 5:50
On Sunday, April 17, 2005, at 06:53 , Mike Ellis wrote:

> Anyone, in conlangs or natlangs. > > "With X being/doing A, Y did B." > > Use whatever nouns or verbs you like; I just need to see how you work this > construction.
The first part is an 'absolute' clause. Natlangs LATIN In Latin, the X is ablative case & 'doing' is a present participle also in the ablative case to agree with X. If A is is a noun or pronoun it will usually be in accusative case, as it is usually the direct object of 'doing', but some Latin verbs did govern other case. Example: eo imperium tenente, euentum timeo he-ABL power-ACC hold-PRES.PART-ABL With him holding power, I fear the outcome There was, however, no present participle for "to be" in Classical Latin, so the two nouns were just put in the ablative, for example: Caesare duce, nihil timebimus. Caesar-ABL leader-ABL With Caesar being leader, we shall fear nothing. ANCIENT GREEK ..had no ablative case and normally used the genitive in this construction; also, unlike Latin, Greek did have a present participle of "to be" autou to kratos ekhontos, to apoban phoboumai he-GEN the power-ACC hold-PRES.PART-GEN With him holding (the) power, I fear the outcome Kaisaros he:gemonos ontos, ouden phobe:sometha Caesar-GEN leader-GEN be-PRES.PART-GEN With impersonal verbs, however, the accusative case was used. Here is an example from the historian Thoukydides (Thucydides): ekson ouk e:theele:sate be-possible-PRES.PART-ACC [even] with it being possible, you would not do [it] Ray =============================================== http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown ray.brown@freeuk.com =============================================== Anything is possible in the fabulous Celtic twilight, which is not so much a twilight of the gods as of the reason." [JRRT, "English and Welsh" ]