Re: Romaunt days (was: A funny linguistic subway experience &c)

En réponse à Raymond Brown <ray.brown@...>:

>
> [....]
> >
> >I was thinking of doing that too in "Roumant". In fact, I'm thinking of
> >deriving
> >the official forms from CL, while the popular forms will be derived
> from VL.
> >Then I would do the same with month-names. But then I have the problem
> of the
> >influence of the Christian Church. I don't know if it would be very
> likely to
> >keep for official names pagan deities names. I would have thought that
> the
> >official forms would be more influenced by the church, while the
> popular forms
> >would stay more "pagan". Any thoughts?
>
> Yes, just a few  :)
>
> Let's put get one thing straight, however.  It is _NOT_ the case that
> Classical Latin had _dies Saturni_ and _dies Solis_ while Vulgar Latin
> had
> _sabbato_/_sambato_ and _die(m) Dominica(m)/Dominco_.
>
Okay, it was just a writing shortcut which happened to be wrong :( . I sould
have said: pagan vs. Christian names.

> The Romans did not use the seven-day week - there are no strictly
> Classical
> Latin Forms.
>
True, the Romans had only a few special days in their months: Ida, Kalenda and
Nona :) .

>
> For interest the Greek names are:
> KYPIAKH     /kiria'ki/        Dominical (day), i.e. the Lord's day
> EYTEPA     /Def'tera/        second (day)
> TPITH       /'triti/          third (day)
> TETAPTH     /te'tarti/        fourth (day)
> ½EM½TH     /'pempti/         fifth (day)
> ½APA…KEYH  /paraske'vi/      Preparation
> …ABBATON    /'savato(n)/      Sabbath
>
> [Hope the Greek letters don't get hopelessly mangled!]
>
They did, but the phonemic transcription was enough to correct it :) .

>
> The name for Friday is interesting; this is the Jewish day of
> _preparation_
> for the Sabbath and the term ½APA…KEYH (= preparatio) is used in the New
> Testament.  The Vulgate does not translate the name into Latin
> 'Praeparatio', but simply Romanizes the Greek form, i.e. Parasce:ve:
> (both
> Es being long, and keeping the Greek accusative -e:n); Tertullian also
> uses
> the same word for Friday.
>
Interesting form, never heard of it before.

> Now, to return to what Christophe said: "But then I have the problem of
> the
> influence of the Christian Church. I don't know if it would be very
> likely
> to keep for official names pagan deities names. I would have thought
> that
> the official forms would be more influenced by the church, while the
> popular forms would stay more 'pagan'".
>
> And I'm sure Christophe is absolutely right.  If we have the two-name
> scenario, then what would seem most likely to me is that the popular
> forms
> retain the early VL forms from which the modern Welsh (and Brithenig)
> forms
> are derived ('dydd' is usually omitted if the context is clear), and the
> official "Church forms" not only have forms derived from _Sabbatum_ and
> _Dominica/Dominicus_ but also number the other days as in Portuguese or
> Greek.  Indeed, Roumant might be the only Romance-lang that retained a
> form
> derived from Christian Latin Parascé:ve: for Friday   :)
>
If you have read my last post about Roumant, you can see that I followed my last
idea, deriving the popular set of names from the Latin pagan forms, while the
official set derives from Christian forms. Right now, in the official set Friday
is die Sexte, but I'm thinking now about taking the Christian Latin Parascé:ve:.
What would it look like if I'm adding "dies" to it: dies Parascé:vis?