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From:Isaac Penzev <isaacp@...>
Date:Wednesday, July 6, 2005, 17:24
Ingmar Roerdinkholder jazdy:

> Yeah, I know about that, remember last year we mailed about Slavo- > Turcologics,
Exactly! After that I tried several other projects, but was unsatisfied with the results and returned to P20. NB: it undergoes serious revision!
> I sent you some information about my own variety "Carthangyz",
Yes, now I understood it was YOU :)
> a Turkic language spoken by Orthodox Christians on the Black Sea island > Carthangyzia, related to Crimean Osman, Crimean Tartar and Gauguz. > I'm curious wether you used some of it for your Kuman Tyli.
It is not called Kuman Tyli any more, because I decided not to tie it to actual Cuman as found in Codex Cumanicus. I'm in search for a better name. I'm sure the people who speak the language, call themselves "Kypchaklar", but to call the language merely "Kypchak" seems too misleading. Gagauz and Karai are the main paterns to watch the Slavic influence, but since the language is mostly Qypchaq, not Oghuz, it must be closer to Kumyk, Karachay-Malkar, to lesser extent to Noghay, Qirim Tatar, Qazan Tatar, Karakalpak. Those are my main sources.
> Carthangyz has two main dialects: the major, Northern one around the > capital, and the Southern one which is much closer to Turkish. Carthangyz > orthography is designed in a way that both pronunciations are possible. > E.g. ë = North [jE], South [e]; ö = N [jO], South [2]; ü = N [ju], S [y], > j = N [Z], S [j] etc. Northern Carthangyz phonology is influenced a lot by > Slavonic languages like Russian, Ukrainian, and Bulgarian,
The same is true about P20. Common Turkic *ö = [jO]/[;O], *ü = [ju]/[;u] like in your N.C. plus other phonological niceties, like "dissimilative yaism": CT *ä normally > e [jE]/[E], but > ä [j&]/[&] in open syllables before syllables containing /i/ and occasionally /e/, e.g. _jurek_ [z\u"rEk] "heart" :: _jurägi_ [z\ur;&"g;i] "his heart", _kel_ [k;El;] "come!" :: _käle_ [k;&"l;E] "while coming". I don't know if your comp reads Cyrillics, so I used transliteration. Normally it must be written with Russian alphabet.
> and gave up > vowel harmony altogether, unlike Southern pronunciaton.
Nah, v.h. is well alive in P20, both velar and labial; the latter only for high vowels.
> as you will have noticed: <ben> with <b-> like in Turkish, the other cases > with <m-> like all other Turkic languages
I'm still hezitant about certain roots and suffixes. Clearly initial b- is often > m- like in other Qypchaq natlangs, but I cannot find criteria to distinguish between Qypchaq and Oghuz elements in lgs. Thus, Series II suffixes 1pl -ibiz and 2pl -igiz seem Q. , while -imiz and -ingiz seem Og., but Q.-Noghay subgroup obviously uses nazal variants! No time for examples, but they are obvious. See a worksheet on P20 (a bit obsolete) here: -- Yitz